Philip Seymour Hoffman- dead at 46

pffog said:

I did not speak ill of you, I only stated, IMHO, what I was taught was a better set of values, one of understanding and tolerance.

I also said that is is noble to try and help those living, and several here have made comments, in an attempt to cause you some self reflection, we appear to have been unsuccessful, as you continue to bait and argue.

All I can say is when your time comes, I hope that there are people around that sing your praises, and your family does not encounter someone crass enough to proclaim you as an angry, intolerant and bitter man. In real life you might be a heck of a guy, but to others, at this point, you appear to be the later. Luckily I am polite enough to keep my negative thoughts to myself at that juncture.

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Why do I need self reflection ? Because I do not agree lockstep ? Or because I speak the truth as I see it, and I see it differently than you & some others.

And you have reduced me to angry,intolerant,and bitter? Because I do not agree with drug use / abuse? And at this juncture your politeness escapes me ...because you have already said it.

And what about the selfishness & lack of responsibility displayed by Mr Hoffman in regard to his children & their mother left behind. {HE} brought them their grief through his selfish action....I did not. For him I have no sympathy, for his suffering loved ones I do......But by your logic, [and words] that makes me angry,intolerant,and bitter...Interesting.

This reminds me of the old adage, "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get muddy and the pig likes it ."

Quit feeding him.

Voni said:

So if I have nothing nice to say and am quiet I leave you to vent your self righteousness all over my forum. What does that say?

Voni

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I'm not sure what that would say? If anything? All I know is I spoke out about / against, drug use & abuse , [an illegal activity] being {IMO} incorrectly disguised as a decease. And my opposition to it. But in your reply you indicate that perhaps I am something less then the law breaking addict , because of my disapproval of his action.....again interesting...and I fail to see how you and I are so different?

And this quote from this note:

When tragedies like these deaths happen to celebrities, they should be a wake-up call for the rest of us. If someone who has everything going for them can be so horribly enslaved to what they know could kill them, imagine what it?s like for the average addict. Addiction is bigger than class, race, religion, or any other factor that one might hope would reduce its captive hold. Succumbing to it isn?t selfish. It?s horribly sad and extremely difficult to prevent, even though it is, in theory, preventable. The way we talk about a celebrity who ODs says a lot about the way we think about people who are struggling around us. It?s time we tried to understand struggles we don?t endure ourselves. It?s called empathy, and we could all use a lot more of it.

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http://www.electricfeast.com/a-note-about-philip-seymour-hoffman-addiction-is-not-selfish/

akbeemer said:

This reminds me of the old adage, "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get muddy and the pig likes it ."

Quit feeding him.

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I am out!

Voni said:

I found this article a very good discussion of addiction:

http://blogs.kqed.org/stateofhealth...fmans-death-sadly-teaches-us-about-addiction/

Voni

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Interesting article...Thanks.

I still maintain that drug use / abuse is not a decease!...it starts with a choice. The minute one chooses to stick a needle in their body & push the plunger. It may become a decease medically speaking, but it starts with choice. Yes there are those that become addicted due to illness ,accident,pain, etc....and for them I am absolutely sympathetic , and hope the very best for them.

There are terminal patients in hospitals, there are ill children all over the world, there are people with {mis-wired] minds, etc & so on....and they have my absolute sympathy..and i pray for a cure to their troubles/illness.

I however cannot find sympathy for someone who needs to escape their life of privilege , fame & fortune...and who leaves behind their children , because all they care about are themselves. And keep in mind that these children, given their emotional trauma, and example set,...may very well follow that negative example.....There's the sadness!

A big problem with heroin is that it is now cheap and readily available. Note the following:

"Traffic is heavy worldwide, with the biggest producer being Afghanistan.[77] According to a U.N. sponsored survey,[7] as of 2004, Afghanistan accounted for production of 87 percent of the world's diacetylmorphine.[78] Afghan opium kills around 100,000 people annually.[79]

The cultivation of opium in Afghanistan reached its peak in 1999, when 350 square miles (910 km2) of poppies were sown. The following year the Taliban banned poppy cultivation, a move which cut production by 94 percent. By 2001 only 30 square miles (78 km2) of land were in use for growing opium poppies. A year later, after American and British troops had removed the Taliban and installed the interim government, the land under cultivation leapt back to 285 square miles (740 km2), with Afghanistan supplanting Burma to become the world's largest opium producer once more.[80][81] "

So much for our Afghan adventure...

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin

Harry

Before this gets too far off the rails- my initial post was about an actor that I could count on for doing a good job in a film. If you all want to talk about addictions, I can splt the thread. The only thing is you still have to play nice.
OM

Never thought much about addiction until several years back a guy at work highlighted it for me. The nicest guy you would've ever wanted to meet or know, but man-o-man, at the Xmas party, a simple whiff of a beer and he checked out, turned into a different person, and I learned what addiction is.

I always love a stiff toddie especially late at an end of a tough week, maybe two, but I could always check myself, ergo, I never understood how someone else could not do the same, until I saw it in front of me self.

So, there you have it, my two cents on addiction. I believe as others that it can take many forms of injected/ingested material, or even other stuff that the brain can wrap its mind around. It really deserves a lot of study/reading, and digging into the rigor of psychiatry to get a grip on the phenomenon. Have a nice wrenching which is my therapy of choice.

8ninety8 said:

Never thought much about addiction until several years back a guy at work highlighted it for me. The nicest guy you would've ever wanted to meet or know, but man-o-man, at the Xmas party, a simple whiff of a beer and he checked out, turned into a different person, and I learned what addiction is.

I always love a stiff toddie especially late at an end of a tough week, maybe two, but I could always check myself, ergo, I never understood how someone else could not do the same, until I saw it in front of me self.

So, there you have it, my two cents on addiction. I believe as others that it can take many forms of injected/ingested material, or even other stuff that the brain can wrap its mind around. It really deserves a lot of study/reading, and digging into the rigor of psychiatry to get a grip on the phenomenon. Have a nice wrenching which is my therapy of choice.

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Remember Johnny Carson of the Tonight show? It was the same thing for him with alcohol.

71243
It is a disease of the MIND and the BODY.
That is what they don't understand. They think it is a disease solely of the body, like cancer.
It ain't.
dc

Before this thread will be closed, I would like to get one more thing in here.
Once again, I have no real share in this, because I do not know addiction myself (other than motorcycles - and Sigmund Freud had the theory that any human passion or drive was a supersession of the sex-drive) - but for those of you, who despise those who have an addiction - in this here case -drugs, put yourself in a situation that this would hit home. Daughter, son, wife, whoever is close to you. I wonder whether you would still favor the "school of hard knocks" as a remedy.
Look at some people, quite exposed, who took a stand against being gay and then had to reverse their position once their child came out.
Don't get used to throwing stones. One of these days you may sit in a glass house.

I've been sucked into this thread, mainly because I am bored. I've been out of work for a few months and it is winter time, so I have a lot of time to contemplate threads like these.

First of all, do we know that Hoffman was an 'addict', or did he just take too much this time? There is a difference. No matter what, I still have little emotion for a person who dies by accident of their own making while partaking in questionable behavior, as deemed by society as a whole, or by actions they choose on purpose. I believe in free will and being responsible for the repercussions of your choices.

That said, I had a brother who was what I would call and 'addict'. Notice the key word is 'had'. He is dead. Died at 58. His body was destroyed inside by over consumption of alcohol: gin and vodka. He was an alcoholic all of his adult life. If you had met him you never would have known it. He was never 'drunk'. But he drank every day. And drank a lot. He was also the smartest person I have ever met. His mind was like a trap. And he could have discussions on any of the hot topics of the day. His mastery of history and geography was astounding. He read technical publications for fun.

He went into the Marines in the Vietnam Era, back when 'jail or service' was the options given to the law breaking teenagers of the time. His draft lottery number was very high, but his criminal behavior, (drugs and alcohol) was quite active. His entrance exam scores were off the charts. The recruiters couldn't believe he had no college education. He entered the Marines as an enlisted grunt, and 25 years later he retired with two, yes two, masters degrees and the rank of captain. We all know how difficult it can be to go from NCO to officer.

Why the story, to let you know that there are addicts among you, fully functioning adults. I asked my brother one time, "Why don't you try to stop drinking?' He told me that he 'liked it' and "why bother, I'm doing just fine as I am". I decided then that it was his choice, and never judged him for his choice again. He died, and some of course said "how tragic, what a waste,etc..." I said "his choice, his way, who am I to judge"? He widowed a woman, but left her financially secure, and had no children.

pffog said:

Well I guess some of us were just taught better manners. You are entitled to your thoughts and opinions,

I was taught, that if I had nothing good to say, keep my mouth shut. If we all practiced this, the MOD's would be ecstatic!

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It seems like some people think that their opinion is more important or correct than others' especially if it is opposite of their's . Maybe you should practice what you preached about keeping your mouth shut if you don't have anything good to say about others. Oh, and I'm sorry if this offends anyone.

pffog said:

I did not speak ill of you, I only stated, IMHO, what I was taught was a better set of values, one of understanding and tolerance.

I also said that is is noble to try and help those living, and several here have made comments, in an attempt to cause you some self reflection, we appear to have been unsuccessful, as you continue to bait and argue.

All I can say is when your time comes, I hope that there are people around that sing your praises, and your family does not encounter someone crass enough to proclaim you as an angry, intolerant and bitter man. In real life you might be a heck of a guy, but to others, at this point, you appear to be the later. Luckily I am polite enough to keep my negative thoughts to myself at that juncture.

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Seems to me thant those who preach tolerance are somtimes the least tolerant. Ron has done nothing but express his opinion on a subject. It seems to me it is others who continue to "bait and argue". It seems that some on here have decided that they are more self righteous than any who don't feel as they do. You sir should practice what you keep preaching and keep your negative thoughts to your self.

Very surprising responses.

The man was awesome at what he did. I am sad for the loss to his family and to the fans that reveled in his brilliance.

What has been most surprising from this post that should have been a celebration of his work, is the complete ignorance all the way to the brilliance of some of the comments.

We do live in a big wide world and we are entitled to our opinions. This isn't so in many places in the world. Once this post gets closed and joins the many places in the world where free expression isn't tolerated, perhaps we can back to the task at hand, celebrate a brilliant person's life.

dieselyoda said:

The man was awesome at what he did. I am sad for the loss to his family and to the fans that reveled in his brilliance.

What has been most surprising from this post that should have been a celebration of his work, is the complete ignorance all the way to the brilliance of some of the comments.

We do live in a big wide world and we are entitled to our opinions. This isn't so in many places in the world. Once this post gets closed and joins the many places in the world where free expression isn't tolerated, perhaps we can back to the task at hand, celebrate a brilliant person's life.

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Mod Steve here, as member Steve has said his RIP to PSH and moved on.

There lies the problem as the intent of the OP has wandered into opinions,or opinions stated as being the truth about addiction. Omega offered to split the thread into a separate discussion, nobody has requested he do that. Why not?



This is one of the more civil forums I have been involved with and in spite of a few wanting a free for all type area, I believe the majority of folks enjoy the usual calm provided here. I am a member who happens to volunteer to be a moderator.
Free speech and personal opinions are totally OK...until you infringe on other members rights to come to a peaceful forum. We do have posting guidelines that we all accepted when we joined. How many of you have taken the time to read them?

I see a few borderline personal attacks as I read ALL of the posts. They are close enough to get some folks a warning and or a time out. This is one of the sub-forums I was asked to moderate. It takes a lot of my personal time as well as some of the fun being a member I used to enjoy. I am held to some imagined level of not being equal as a fellow member...I am an elite inner circle THEM. If you know me, you know I am not elitist. I have to watch my words often as I am held to this perceived status.

I also was NOT a moderator back in the Tavern/DGT trials. It did not go well and even given time would most likely soured anyways. It was anything but civil and some friendships ruined. a few members had viloence threatened with a picture off Google Maps of their house posted...is this an adult response?
I posted a lot of this a few pages back, seems some folks do not go all the way back to post #1 on most threads to see where they hit a tipping point along the way. The free for all has no place in a club forum...it's not that kind of forum, never was intended to be.

We used to have a lot of our female riding members participating here...they do not have the testosterone and the need to out poke anybody...they have all but disappeared in the last few years... It's a sad tale of our gentlemanly behavior...or lack of. My wife is a member, was a Beemer rider before me, but will not post here because of the environment. One even commented about being told she had no business at the National Rally...are you serious?

The ADV forum about the same time was a lot hotter than it is today and still called the MOA whitebread. A few of the posters who wish for all out battle here would not have made it long in the old ADV...maybe not even today. Go visit..it's free to play.

Trust me when I say I understand some of the comments about not needing momma looking over things...I'm 57 and dislike being scolded. I do play by the rules however when I visit various sites...don't always agree with them, but I comply.

I am asking everyone to take a collective breath, a walk-a-way for a short time and to keep things civil when you return. It isn't the moderators wish to close any thread...it's often the individuals that keep pushing the envelope that cause that action. Kind of like addiction...I didn't make you or cause you to do whatever you did...but I have to live with it or walk away. I'm not walking away.

I close with this quote from another log time member who felt he would be in trouble if he posted this...since he knows he would feel the need to reply...I think it's spot on. With this you do not know which view he has , other than he is not wanting to see this type environment in our club forum.


"I read these contentious posts and have a hard time keeping from posting something that would get me banned. The guidelines are the way they are because they take into account human nature, male ego, testosterone, and religious or political fervor. These threads do no service to the MOA. They are way past any constructive discourse."

Oldnslow
"Do you know he was an 'addict'."
There is no such thing as a social heroine user.
There is a social drinker, not an alcoholic, who can go and have a drink or two in the society of others, and go home and have no further desire to go any further.
There is no such counterpart in the world of heroine.
dc