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Indianapolis person found guilty in killing motorcyclist

The first step is to admit powerlessness. There are eleven [11] steps that follow and they are very effective for whatever the substance might be. Seek the Big Book.

And, unfortunately that is not about the "society" or the "we" of which you asked. It is about the individual, though.


Even that isn't fool proof (12 step). My understanding is that rehab fails for 96% for first timers and doesn't get much better for the second time around. The other thing is, there is a downside with being surrounded by fellow addicts that can be counter productive. In the end, it's changing what one believes that stops addiction. Dr Max Maltz had some interesting insight into it.
 
Even that isn't fool proof (12 step). My understanding is that rehab fails for 96% for first timers and doesn't get much better for the second time around. The other thing is, there is a downside with being surrounded by fellow addicts that can be counter productive. In the end, it's changing what one believes that stops addiction. Dr Max Maltz had some interesting insight into it.

My uncle had done AA several times. He worked construction, with a culture of drinking. He quit construction for a while, it only made him poor and drunk. Poor you will never escape, too much additional stress. My aunt even commented he was better when on construction, at least he was providing for them a lot better and was much happier, still drunk but happy drunk.

He commented once he wished he had never started drinking. He did me a favor, while I drink and get drunk on rare occasion, I will never ever let myself become a drunk. There is no drunk gene on my side of the family so that is easy for me. He came from a long line of drunks. He never wanted kids, he said this affliction stops with him.

I have many fond memories of him. He was a fun, hard working, good man with a monkey on his back that would never let go. Fishing with him was so funny, he would cuss the minnow for not wanting to be hooked, cuss the fish that got away, cuss the fish that he landed and tangled his line. It was so funny, my sides would hurt. I never understood why he fished, to hear him it was the most awful thing ever for him. In spite of the bait, fish and line not cooperating, I guess it was as good a way to drink as any. I have wondered, since he never wanted kids, if he was fishing just to spend some time with me. And I did learn to drive from him, some one had too, he was really drunk. My folks never knew though.

I wish others could have spent time with and loved my uncle, it would help them to understand and be more compassionate. He was one of a number of people in my life that taught me things not learned in school or church. You know, the important stuff.

Rod
 
My uncle had done AA several times. He worked construction, with a culture of drinking. He quit construction for a while, it only made him poor and drunk. Poor you will never escape, too much additional stress. My aunt even commented he was better when on construction, at least he was providing for them a lot better and was much happier, still drunk but happy drunk.

He commented once he wished he had never started drinking. He did me a favor, while I drink and get drunk on rare occasion, I will never ever let myself become a drunk. There is no drunk gene on my side of the family so that is easy for me. He came from a long line of drunks. He never wanted kids, he said this affliction stops with him.

I have many fond memories of him. He was a fun, hard working, good man with a monkey on his back that would never let go. Fishing with him was so funny, he would cuss the minnow for not wanting to be hooked, cuss the fish that got away, cuss the fish that he landed and tangled his line. It was so funny, my sides would hurt. I never understood why he fished, to hear him it was the most awful thing ever for him. In spite of the bait, fish and line not cooperating, I guess it was as good a way to drink as any. I have wondered, since he never wanted kids, if he was fishing just to spend some time with me. And I did learn to drive from him, some one had too, he was really drunk. My folks never knew though.

I wish others could have spent time with and loved my uncle, it would help them to understand and be more compassionate. He was one of a number of people in my life that taught me things not learned in school or church. You know, the important stuff.

Rod

The monkey on their back is a big thing. Again, it's what they believe and believe about the monkey. It's a shame, but beliefs almost always trump logic and this extends to politics and religion as well. It's a day by day thing.
 
My brother's been in rehab more times than he has fingers.
Even two years in prison (4th offense felony grade DUI) wasn't enough to convince him to stay sober.
Missed our mom's funeral- O.D./hospital & rehab
Missed our dad's funeral- prison

The most clear he ever was, the best conversations I ever had with him, there was one-inch thick lexan between us and we talked on a handset.
 
The first step is to admit powerlessness. There are eleven [11] steps that follow and they are very effective for whatever the substance might be. Seek the Big Book.

And, unfortunately that is not about the "society" or the "we" of which you asked. It is about the individual, though.

As for taking "steps"-I was a counselor working in what was (me 1975-78) the 2nd minimum security prison established in the USA. 1st was in AL. We had mostly young , as all 1st offenders by law, and most were drunk and/or under some influencing substance being abused at the time of crime/s. (E.G.: I had one young black kid that "robbed his aunt's laundromat" which was next door to his own house, with a water pistol while drunk. He got all the money in her apron at the time,was barely enough to make a felony charge. To add to the story he also played basketball on the local Sweet Sixteen state tournament team that year, thus not a career criminal type at all. He should have been at home!)
That minimum prison was not quite as good a place to "learn to be a better criminal" as some human warehouse prisons we see but not cushy either. All went to school. Sadly I couldn't place the non readers or very short sentences in tech training. What it did have was the first AA meeting many had ever attended & I ran a drug group there too, aside form tech school duties. Prison can serve a purpose, so its not good to make sweeping statements that all inside are not getting some benefit. Sure, some join AA,etc., to make parole chances better but even that is better than no AA or group participation. Here in KY the court orders treatment attendance but you cannot ever assure the right state of mind for help to happen! My wife received these people via counseling referrals from the courts & while I never knew their names I did hear the (all too often)futility of the sessions @ home.

Now, compare the drunk cop hitting the MC rider to a recent accident in Lexington,KY: They just buried the 12 yr old little girl this week. She was crossing in a cross walk & hit by a driver that stated "they were blinded by the sun and didn't see her". News account stated the driver was unlikely to be charged. We all obviously "feel for" the parents & the driver too. The sun in your eyes is something all of us experience as a rider/driver- what a shame it can be such an innocent factor in a terrible accident! Or is it?
Drunks are easy to place blame upon but not regular drivers bothered by the sun? How often we see a vehicle accident in the news that states driver "lost control" then it will go on to state seat belts or not,etc.. It always leaves me wondering about all the other crap we see people doing when driving that's pretty innocent stuff, compared to being under the influence-OR IS IT!?
 
My uncle had done AA several times. He worked construction, with a culture of drinking. He quit construction for a while, it only made him poor and drunk. Poor you will never escape, too much additional stress. My aunt even commented he was better when on construction, at least he was providing for them a lot better and was much happier, still drunk but happy drunk.

He commented once he wished he had never started drinking. He did me a favor, while I drink and get drunk on rare occasion, I will never ever let myself become a drunk. There is no drunk gene on my side of the family so that is easy for me. He came from a long line of drunks. He never wanted kids, he said this affliction stops with him.

I have many fond memories of him. He was a fun, hard working, good man with a monkey on his back that would never let go. Fishing with him was so funny, he would cuss the minnow for not wanting to be hooked, cuss the fish that got away, cuss the fish that he landed and tangled his line. It was so funny, my sides would hurt. I never understood why he fished, to hear him it was the most awful thing ever for him. In spite of the bait, fish and line not cooperating, I guess it was as good a way to drink as any. I have wondered, since he never wanted kids, if he was fishing just to spend some time with me. And I did learn to drive from him, some one had too, he was really drunk. My folks never knew though.

I wish others could have spent time with and loved my uncle, it would help them to understand and be more compassionate. He was one of a number of people in my life that taught me things not learned in school or church. You know, the important stuff.

Rod

Rod, I believe this is the most moving post I have EVER read on this forum! THANK YOU!
 
...It always leaves me wondering about all the other crap we see people doing when driving that's pretty innocent stuff, compared to being under the influence-OR IS IT!?

Exactly! I remember a case years ago (had to be, you'll see) where someone's defense was that she was reaching for a cassette tape she'd dropped so didn't see the person she ran over. When stuff like that is treated as an 'accident' we are building a blame-free killing environment. We hammer drunk drivers because they MIGHT run into someone, but when a driver actually DOES run into someone we really don't care that much. If your license is expired you can't drive away from a checkpoint, but if you're actually driving badly - even recklessly - you can drive away after getting your ticket.
 
And in the leading spot "letter to the editor" , Lexington-Herald NP yesterday was from a lawyer in Lexington mentioning the 12 yr old girl's death, I spoke about above. Her letter compares the recent trial there wherein a black driver hit a cop in a dark, night time alley (cop was in all dark clothes with no reflective stuff on clothing), cop was killed & man is now in prison on manslaughter. Not sure if she had a stake in that case,not mentioned at least, but her point was that hitting a cop gets you hard time when the "dark" is the cause but lady driver hitting a 12 yr old when the "sun" is the cause,apparently gets you a free pass.
No I'm not trying to turn this into another George Z case, no way Jose' on that idea! :thumb
My only point is that we approach accidents far differently at times. Seemingly "innocent acts"(?) often have terrible consequences & at times very little ado follows. I'm old enough to remember when getting drunk & driving was still (sort of) an innocent act.
 
They just buried the 12 yr old little girl this week. She was crossing in a cross walk & hit by a driver that stated "they were blinded by the sun and didn't see her". News account stated the driver was unlikely to be charged.

Where I'm from that's called careless driving at the least or in the worst case (eg: speeding or talking on cell phone at the same time) criminal negligence causing death. I'm surprised this driver is unlikely to be charged.
 
Mod Steve here...

I moved this topic over here to the Campfire as it isn't really a Motorrad topic. I haven't been as active until the dark of Fall has shortened my outdoor chores/riding or I would have moved it earlier.

Let's keep the discussion as positive as one can as a lot of us have had encounters with this type of life changing event and/or the folks who caused them or impacted by them. Nothing brings a positive closure...IMHO.
 
My sincere apology to anyone I may have offended by my comments, certainly not my intention. I acknowledge the topic is a sensitive one. As they say these days, "my bad".
 
"No Bad" at all...just a better fit over by the Campfire

Good input by many...it is a tragedy repeated daily in this country, just doesn't always make the front page.
 
Where I'm from that's called careless driving at the least or in the worst case (eg: speeding or talking on cell phone at the same time) criminal negligence causing death. I'm surprised this driver is unlikely to be charged.

Regardless of charges or not, a civil trial seems inevitable and usually has as severe repercussions as a formal charge/ criminal trial. Distracted is distracted no matter the reason.
A recent hit and run in Austin by a DUI killing a runner got minimal criminal punishment...the civil trial prevailed....still didn't bring the deceased back however.
 
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