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So our daughter wants to ride a motorcycle....

Hi Bill!

I give a big NO vote to Airheads. Heavy, slow, tall, obsolete brakes. She doesn't need to learn to work on her bike; she needs to learn to ride it. You want a simple, light, reliable, fun and easy-to-ride bike that she can grow out of (that might take longer than you think). A bike that she needs to grow into is a recipe for failure and I have seen that over and over.

For most people I encounter in that position, a BMW is not the best option. Some kind of 500~650 twin with ABS, that she can stand comfortably over, with bars that are not too far forward is IMO great.

The main thing is that while she is in the beginning stages of learning, you don't want bike management (weight, height, etc) to be a distraction. She can learn to manage a heavier, taller bike once she has some muscle memory about traffic and intersections.
 
So as I follow this thread there seems to me that most agree, BMW has a lack of a machine suitable as a beginners bike.
 
We have a son who will be old enough to get his license in a few more years. He is already dirt riding, which is IMO the best place to learn. He'll most likely start out on the street on a dual sport, such as Kawasaki Super Sherpa (250cc). I'm betting he'll move from there to a smaller street machine such as a Ninja 300 or 500 (or similar Honda). He'd like a BMW someday, but I think he'll be content to let that wait a few years.
 
AK - Thanks for the advice. We looked at F650 singles and thought they were too buzzy back when they first came out. Not sure that is still the case. One factor we are considering is that we would "like" to get something my wife and I would also enjoy riding, hence the airhead idea.

Several people we have discussed this with have suggested a recent Honda CBR250R with ABS would be a good starter bike. They are cheap and even have a positive write-up on Consumer Reports.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...roves-fun-well-suited-to-new-riders/index.htm

The "problem" with this bike is my wife and I wouldn't likely ride it which may be beside the point. We would also have to carry Faye's gear to rallies as there appears to be no option for bags either.

Since many of responses are worried about height, how tall is your daughter?
 
Hi Bill!

I give a big NO vote to Airheads. Heavy, slow, tall, obsolete brakes. She doesn't need to learn to work on her bike; she needs to learn to ride it. You want a simple, light, reliable, fun and easy-to-ride bike that she can grow out of (that might take longer than you think). A bike that she needs to grow into is a recipe for failure and I have seen that over and over.

For most people I encounter in that position, a BMW is not the best option. Some kind of 500~650 twin with ABS, that she can stand comfortably over, with bars that are not too far forward is IMO great.

The main thing is that while she is in the beginning stages of learning, you don't want bike management (weight, height, etc) to be a distraction. She can learn to manage a heavier, taller bike once she has some muscle memory about traffic and intersections.

Exactly the points I would like to make as well. She needs to learn to ride a motorcycle first and foremost. She should learn on a motorcycle with brakes that are much more modern than even the best /6 or /7 could provide. If you must stay in the BMW family the 650 single is good, albeit maybe a little tall.
 
Slightly off topic but... 'If" you have the location, space, time and etc etc...I would STRONGLY suggest she start out riding a dirt bike in a field or at some sort of off road facility. (not a motocross track though.) and the bike I would highly recomend is a Yamaha TTr 125 with the 'big wheel' option and electric start. Let her go out and trash this bike. Learn the clutch, learn the brakes, learn how to wheelie, learn how to power slide, learn how to skid steer, learn how to do a stoppie, learn what it feels like in mud, in gravel, in dirt, on asphalt. Let her crash about 100 times on that bike. Remembering how much it hurt to whack a tree at 20 mph goes a long way towards teaching safe riding on the street. Let her know how it feels to run it to the redline. Then...turn her loose on the street with any bike 'she wants'. She will have the respect of a crash, be confident with the clutch, be grateful for powerful brakes, and will have alot of her hotdogging out of her system. Then sell the TTr for just about what you paid for it!

If not an option, I recomend the maxi scooters, 400cc from Yamaha or Suzuki. My son has one and loves it. The advantage is no clutch work to worry about while 'learning' how to ride a street bike. My kid had already cut his teeth on the whole series of Honda mini bikes and had raced an RM65, and played around on Honda 100's and TTrs, so he had plenty of crashes and experience under his belt, but he wanted the maxi scooter for easy riding! I ride it often and it is a wonderful machine. (Yamaha Majesty400)

In my opinion, the whole 'too much power' for a beginner thing is slightly over rated. A bike needs to have enough power to get out of its own way. Under powered can be just as much of a problem as too much power. I'm not advocatinf buying a 'Busa as the first bike you have ever ridden, but neither is a Yamaha Exciter 125 cruiser a good choice either!
 
+1

nothing like watching your daughter drop a brand new motorcycle. And she will.... we all have.

Better to start on something smaller and lighter.......... and used!

IMHO


I'm in the retirement stage of my life but the lady I want to be with is in her 50's. She enjoyed being a passenger but got a bit of a taste of two wheels from a scooter that I used for stuff like beer runs and groceries. First year she had it, barely touched it. Second year, she turned into a fiend. She drove it everyday.
We did the basic motorcycle course together. My reasoning to do it together was it was better than dance lessons.
She failed the first time. Her confidence took a beating when she dumped the program bike in the hard braking skill through a turn, on wet pavement.
She took the course again and passed.
I have a love of my life in a Kawasaki 440 LTD. She's a sweet little ride and very forgiving. Disc on the front, drum for rear and a big wet clutch and best, she can be flat footed and it only weighs 300 lbs wet.
I gave it to the lady I want to build a future with. It took her about the first ride to drop it. She has dropped it four times this summer. She can pick it up by herself, dust it off and carry on.
There are no pads left, the shoes must be toast and the clutch is cooked.
Still though, I will fix it and she will get another season from it and burn it out again if need be. It's fast enough to have fun but not powerful enough to loose it if you pop the clutch. You can't lock the front brakes above 20 mph and you can't break the back tire loose with the throttle.
When she's ready, the Kawasaki will come back to me for some TLC and she will choose her ride.
In my opinion, a nice under 500CC that doesn't have a lot of technology and requires daily care, tire pressure, oil level and is simple enough for anybody to learn to repair is the start of beginning to appreciate the sophisticated equipment available.
Please don't misunderstand me. I will probably never ride a bike any serious distance without ABS again. I also don't want my lady trying to keep up with me at 100 mph until she is comfortable with 5 mph in crazy traffic.
 
Hi Sgtbill

This is exciting news! I sincerely hope your daughter enjoys motorcycling for her whole lifetime without mishap.

I encourage you, first & foremost, to find out what SHE wants, or sees herself on. We all know the "apple don't fall too far from the tree"...
But who's to say that little apple won't roll out from under the shade of said tree into the light of a different day?

You might be surprised at what she yearns for, or what her vision for herself on a bike is. You might not agree with her choice of bike, even. But try not to superimpose your and your wife's ideas about motorcycles on her- let her choose her own path- but definitely help her see the necessity and sense of beginning with a good "learner" bike (heck- let her pick the learner for herself), then work up to the bike she wants most to ride, after she gains some valuable experience.
I encourage you to encourage her to work up to whatever it is, and have her start small, smaller maybe than she'd like in a bike. Perhaps work out a two year plan, where she begins on a compromise machine, and works up to her "dream bike" by, say, her 18th birthday.

Beginning on one bike, then working up to her ideal will provide great lessons in planning and achieving goals. She may gain some sense of discipline and an ability to realize her visions for her own future thru it all as well.

Just a few thoughts.
Best of luck with this- to you & the Mrs, and to your daughter as well!
 
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If not an option, I recomend the maxi scooters, 400cc from Yamaha or Suzuki. My son has one and loves it. The advantage is no clutch work to worry about while 'learning' how to ride a street bike. My kid had already cut his teeth on the whole series of Honda mini bikes and had raced an RM65, and played around on Honda 100's and TTrs, so he had plenty of crashes and experience under his belt, but he wanted the maxi scooter for easy riding! I ride it often and it is a wonderful machine. (Yamaha Majesty400)

In my opinion, the whole 'too much power' for a beginner thing is slightly over rated. A bike needs to have enough power to get out of its own way. Under powered can be just as much of a problem as too much power. I'm not advocatinf buying a 'Busa as the first bike you have ever ridden, but neither is a Yamaha Exciter 125 cruiser a good choice either!

I had a Suzuki Burgman 400 scooter and it is the easiest 2 wheeled vehicle I have ever ridden. The only problem I had with it was I had to force myself to ride my BMWs to keep the batteries charged. The 400 is a good choice for a beginner but the 650 scooters are heavier and taller and not a good choice.
 
Faye is about 5' 5" and she has a 30" inseam. At 16 years she is a wee bit shorter than my wife Karla (and gaining fast!)

I have had numerous female MSF students in that size range, so her height is mid-size, but could be a challenge for some of the bikes offerred by other posters. How are her body/motor skills? Does she: roller blade, downhill ski, mountain bike, do any other sports relying on coordinated/multiple body actions to maintain balance and motion? If so, good for her because those abilities apply very well to learning cycle riding.

Here's my viewpoint as a 20+ year MSF instructor. Number one, she needs to be comfortable on the bike, reaching the ground (does NOT always mean flat-footed), bike should be narrow, light, easy to handle in regards to throttle/braking/shifiting, etc. "Buzzyness" is only a comfort factor, not a learning/control/comfort factor. Top heavy is never good for a beginner. Easy engine character, like a F650 is a top character to find, and more important than any horsepower numbers or engine size. Some 600's are not good learning bikes, whereas some 650's are. Engine size itself is not the issue. If she is not comfortable on the bike, the basics learning becomes MUCH more difficult. This I know from thousands of students, male and female.

Don't be too concerned about starting "big enough", because learning cycle control well enough at first to get over the high mental load of learning the bike operation is key. Once over that, the aspects of a bigger, heavy, more powerful bike are easier to handle. The 1st goal, is to survive the initial 1st season of getting to know how the bike works, so the rider can progress to learning traffic/strategy skills. New riders are so overwhelmed (male and female, female moreso typically) with all the controls and balance issue that an easy riding bike gives them better opportunity to get over that hurdle and on to survival.

So in the current/recent BMW lineup (and I have ridden them all), are the G650, F650, and that's about it. The F800 in any of it's 1st models can be touchy throttle wise. The F650 and F700 have much more "easy" character to the engine. Same for a Suzuki SV650, or a Kawasaki Ninja 650R. The new Honda NT700 v-twin may be a choice, it is kind of heavy but it has a low spinning/torquey engine character. But there is nothing wrong with starting smaller and working up as ability and comfort grows. We in the US are too focused on "starting big enough", rather than focused on "learning STRONG basic skills, and more importantly, learning traffic/sittuational skills to get past that first year or two. Starting smaller and working up should be viewed as "paying your dues/learning the basics" rather than saving money by starting bigger. You can always go bigger. But a scare in that first few months of riding can quench ALL interest very quickly.
 
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In my opinion, ANDYVH has hit the nail on the head.

My lady friend read the post by ANDYVH and agrees 100%.

That post was what I was trying to say, better explained than my attempt.
 
Don't be too concerned about starting "big enough", because learning cycle control well enough at first to get over the high mental load of learning the bike operation is key. OnWe in the US are too focused on "starting big enough", rather than focused on "learning STRONG basic skills, and more importantly, learning traffic/sittuational skills to get past that first year or two. Sarting smaller and working up should be viewed as "paying your dues/learning the basics" rather than saving money by starting bigger. You can always go bigger. But a scare in that first few months of riding can quench ALL interest very quickly.

I can vividly remember Voni absolutely insisting that my Yamaha RD250 was way too big for her to ride. She progressed to 600, 650, 800, 750, and 1100cc bikes but was absolutely positively certain that my 250 was way too big when she started.
 
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I can vividly remember Voni absolutely insisting that my Yamaha RD250 was way too big for her to ride. She progressed to 600, 800, 750, and 1100cc bikes but was absolutely positively certain that my 250 was way too big when she started.

Obviously, you haven't had enough training to not mention such things...........
 
If she is up for it, dirt, dirt, dirt! Hopefully the family trip to an off-road training site goes well and she enjoys it. The skills learned by sliding around in the dirt are potential butt savers on the street and it is nice to learn how to handle a bike without worrying about traffic. Once she is comfortable with the bike, adding in street skills is a lot easier. Not sure about VA, but here in OH, it is still easy to convert a bike like a TTR-125 big wheel to being street legal and get it plated. The stability of a large front tire combined with some suspension travel can make mistakes like avoiding the car but slamming the pothole much more forgiving. Parking lot drops also cost a lot less on a dual sport bike. It lets you make your transition to the street on a bike you are already familiar with too. At the end of the day, she will have to like the bike, so get her input, get her trained and go have fun. It is one heck of a problem to have.
 
Obviously, you haven't had enough training to not mention such things...........

She tells that story, including the part about riding a 185 beater dirt bike in a bumpy alphalfa field, every chance she gets. It is part of her answer when she is asked, after a million miles, "how did you get started riding?"
 
Thanks everyone for all the great advice.

Re: riding in dirt - living in the metro DC area there are few places to do any off-road riding so we haven't had any of the GS bikes in the stable or done much in the way of enduro riding. I took the BMW Enduro riding course in Germany back in the mid 90s and recognize the value of those skills when riding on the road as well.

We have decided to step back and not rush into a bike right away. Getting Faye's input is a good idea and the points around that are well taken. Maybe during the Thanksgiving break we can take Faye to a couple of dealers to sit on bikes and see what she thinks. She has mentioned that she'd like to get Mom's F800ST as a hand-me-down. Both Mom and I think the F800ST is a poor choice for a beginner. Faye sat on a 250 Ninja a couple of years ago and talked about that bike for months.
 
I think the F800ST is a poor choice for a beginner.

Not sure why you would say this.

My nephew took his basic riding course on a Yamaha FJR. The instructor told him he should get a smaller bike to ride, but he was able to pull it off. I agree that a smaller bike is a good starter. My neighbor bought himself a 350 cc bike. Not sure if it's a Yamaha or Suzuki, but riding it will help him in all the skills needed for a bigger bike.

Hope your daughter can start riding soon. It is fun.
 
Not sure why you would say this.

My nephew took his basic riding course on a Yamaha FJR. The instructor told him he should get a smaller bike to ride, but he was able to pull it off. I agree that a smaller bike is a good starter. My neighbor bought himself a 350 cc bike. Not sure if it's a Yamaha or Suzuki, but riding it will help him in all the skills needed for a bigger bike.

Hope your daughter can start riding soon. It is fun.

My first bike was a KZ1000. I took the road test with it too. The two people before me failed with a sportster and a rebel, both which were smaller bikes. It's all what you get used to.
 
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