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Thread: Brake flush 2013 R1200RT

  1. #16
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wvpc View Post
    Yes D. E. I do realize the diff between the brake and clutch requirements. On topic FWIW, after double checking, the service interval for brake flushing is every two (2) years for that year RT according to BMW. But if folks want to change the brake fluid early have at it. I only do it if I need to (1-2 years). I did mine 5 months early as it is. I did use a GS-911 for my brake service but don't see where or why you have to flush twice. I would like to hear more about that.
    Glad to hear it - we've had more than one person here flush the clutch circuits with DOT4 - and it cost them a lot of money (basically new upper/lower cylinders were required - the seals are not compatible with brake fluid.)

    I believe the idea behind doing the flush twice is - the first flush gets the old fluid out of the circuits. The GS-911 flush gets the fluid/air that might be in the modulator circuits out of the modulator - but it remains in the lines. The final flush gets that fluid/air out of the system. Makes sense to me.. Is it needed every time? Probably not if you exercise the ABS once in a while, and if no air is ever allowed to get into the system. It did cure somewhat (not entirely - but much better than it had been) a soft lever on the front brake that started with the first brake line recall done by BMW - and wasn't cured with multiple flush/bleeds, including the 2nd brake line recall by BMW, and replacement of the master cylinder under warranty.

    It doesn't surprise me that the DVD doesn't reference the ABS bleeding. It may be taught when the techs go to the BMW tech school, or it may be overlooked entirely, but the fact that the ability is there to do it means the BMW engineers anticipated it being done since the folks who make the GS-911 only can enable functions that BMW has programmed into the hardware/firmware.
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders
    '12 R1200R - I love this bike!

  2. #17
    Registered User wvpc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ride View Post
    There is certainly no mystery on how this is done. The traditional bleed process is fine. When I performed this during the 6k maintenance, approximately one year from manufacture date, I had no issues and performed this alone without speed bleeders or any other tool. I had a Mighty Vac but didn't have the correct size tubing; I will have to sort this out for the next time I do the job.

    Just take your time to ensure you do a thorough job and all will be fine.
    IMHO the Speedbleeders are twice as easy as the vacuum setups. Less connections to leak/come apart, etc.
    12 R1200 RT
    83 R100 RT

  3. #18
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wvpc View Post
    Thanks lkchris.

    It was a little scary bleeding the master cylinder as I have never had to do that before. My bike was built in Feb 2012 so I wonder what omitting bleeding the MC after August 2012 is all about? Any step I can skip is important. I do need to pick up the DVD. The GS-911 software is updated often and is fantastic but I guess more info is better.
    It reads like they changed the design and deleted that bleeder.
    Kent Christensen
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    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    In the BWW Service DVD--set to bike 0440, i.e. USA R1200RT 2010) there are no instructions for bleeding an ABS modulator nor any for connecting any electronic devices.

    There is vague reference to "bleeding device" but no official BMW special tool is specified. I could easily take this to mean a vacuum bleeder. There is in fact reference to "vacuum extraction process" and recommendation to additionally "bleed manually" following use of that.

    There is instruction to bleed at the master cylinder for front brakes in addition to bleeding at calipers.

    There is instruction to remove the brake pads when bleeding.

    There are revised instructions for August 2012-on production that omit the bleeding at the reservoir.

    Lots of this conflicts with most information provided above.
    And this is exactly why I started this thread. Given the changes with in changes, reluctance of manufacture to provide much in the way of service data, lack of "current" info and differing procedures on differing models (let alone years) for these machines, it pays to check the general train(s)-of-thought from time to time.
    2008 RT
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  5. #20
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    Front Master Cylinder

    [QUOTE=lkchris;905016]There is instruction to bleed at the master cylinder for front brakes in addition to bleeding at calipers. QUOTE]

    2010 1200GSA- Isn't this accomplished by flushing at the calipers? Is this a necessary/recommended procedure?

    Thanks,

    Ok, I think I am mixing up actions. So, my question I suppose is should the master cylinder be flushed by its bleeder valve when flushing the system?
    Last edited by DcnDog; 08-28-2014 at 10:26 PM. Reason: Replaced "bleeding" with "flushing"
    Dan

    2010 R1200GSA

  6. #21
    i should be out riding! wyman.winn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    Not sure I want to replace the fluid on my 2013 model at this time, but the computer was in my hands, I was on the forum and that question was on my mind. However, I have noted recently that BMW now calls for a brake fluid flush at the one year mark and every other year thereafter. In fact some would argue a yearly fluid change is dollar wise. Combine that with the fact that many bikes sold in the USA have been in the pipeline for sometime, makes the effort a reasonable action. As an example, my machine was delivered in June, but was made in January...therefore it will be a year old in 2 months.
    i have always flushed the brake fluids on all my motorcycles every year and those with coolant as well......30 min max to flush brakes....

    never needed a speed bleeder either.....just a length of clear tubing and an old wine bottle to catch the old fluid.....easy peasy...

    just my 2 cents worth....

    wyman
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    2015 BMW S1000R - Duke - Black Storm Metallic
    2013 BMW R1200RT - Sassy - Fluid Grey Metallic

  7. #22
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    [QUOTE=DcnDog;954397]
    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    There is instruction to bleed at the master cylinder for front brakes in addition to bleeding at calipers. QUOTE]

    2010 1200GSA- Isn't this accomplished by flushing at the calipers? Is this a necessary/recommended procedure?

    Thanks,

    Ok, I think I am mixing up actions. So, my question I suppose is should the master cylinder be flushed by its bleeder valve when flushing the system?
    Dog - I flush the front master cylinder prior to doing the front calipers. I think I heard somewhere (and it makes sense to me) that in removing the old fluid from the reservoir and refilling with fresh, you may inadvertently introduce a bit of air into the master cylinder. Bleeding just the master cylinder allows you to avoid propagating that bubble down the line. It only adds a couple of minutes to the process, but it does require one size smaller hose than the caliper bleed valves.

    As far as I know there isn't a similar capability for the rear master cylinder.

    JayJay
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    Lots of rice burners in the past ...

  8. #23
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    Will do!

    [QUOTE=jayjay;954484]
    Quote Originally Posted by DcnDog View Post
    Dog - I flush the front master cylinder prior to doing the front calipers. I think I heard somewhere (and it makes sense to me) that in removing the old fluid from the reservoir and refilling with fresh, you may inadvertently introduce a bit of air into the master cylinder. JayJay
    Thanks JayJay
    Dan

    2010 R1200GSA

  9. #24
    God? What god? roborider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyman.winn View Post
    i have always flushed the brake fluids on all my motorcycles every year and those with coolant as well......30 min max to flush brakes....

    never needed a speed bleeder either.....just a length of clear tubing and an old wine bottle to catch the old fluid.....easy peasy...

    just my 2 cents worth....

    wyman
    Yep, I gotta agree. I bleed the old fashion way. I can reach everything on a bike and do it myself. I own a mity vac but just don't bother with it. The process is so simple that I've never seen any reason to buy speed bleeders or any such device. It's a 10 -15 minute procedure and so simple.

    Not that I'm against other methods, just haven't felt the need for any.
    Rob C. , Raleigh, NC
    '10 R12RT, R90/6
    2007 CBR600RR & 09 V-Star
    Suzuki DR 350

  10. #25
    Old Rider - OK Mechanic 105258's Avatar
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    Annual Flush - 2010 R1200RT

    Quote Originally Posted by pch123 View Post
    I think you might find that is flush after first year and then every two years after that. Rationale relates to time period between manufacture and delivery can be up to a year or more.
    Regards
    I run about 45,000kms per year and do a flush annually. I find the fluid quite dark at this time and as well it generally firms up the brake response at the same time. My wife just bought a new 800GT and after one month the fluid was black in the rear. I flushed this fluid and it has stayed clear for the time being (10,000kms). Everyone of these bikes I have seen looks the same. Dealer says this is normal and OK, so maybe fluid color is not a good indication of the need for fluid change ? I install speed bleeders in all bikes and for the time and expense of fluid, I will continue to do this every year...
    David Nicholls
    Teulon Manitoba - Canada

    2015 R1200GSA-LC

  11. #26
    i should be out riding! wyman.winn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 105258 View Post
    I run about 45,000kms per year and do a flush annually. I find the fluid quite dark at this time and as well it generally firms up the brake response at the same time. My wife just bought a new 800GT and after one month the fluid was black in the rear. I flushed this fluid and it has stayed clear for the time being (10,000kms). Everyone of these bikes I have seen looks the same. Dealer says this is normal and OK, so maybe fluid color is not a good indication of the need for fluid change ? I install speed bleeders in all bikes and for the time and expense of fluid, I will continue to do this every year...
    +1....too easy during an annual service....

    wyman
    ~wyman~

    2015 BMW S1000R - Duke - Black Storm Metallic
    2013 BMW R1200RT - Sassy - Fluid Grey Metallic

  12. #27
    Registered User pappy35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
    One thing to watch out for - as the clutch disk wears - the fluid in the clutch circuit rises in the reservoir. If it rises enough it can prevent the clutch from fully engaging. This is a bad thing since it means a slipping clutch, and a continuously engaged throwout bearing at the clutch slave cylinder. Just something to watch for - especially if you're riding an ex-police bike.
    Sorry to resurrect an old thread but this caught my eye as I was researching periodic maintenance for my RT.

    I just bought the bike used from a dealer and noticed that the clutch reservoir was dead full. The bike only has 6,400 miles on it so I doubt the clutch is worn that much. I drained the fluid to about the halfway point between min and max. The fluid was a dark green and looked fine. Clutch actuates fine with no slippage.

    Do you folks think this is something that I should be concerned about as-in being run overfull causing undue wear to the clutch slave/actuation rod?
    '13 R1200RT 90th Anniversary Edition

  13. #28
    Der Kaptain mrtnfischer's Avatar
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    Help, BLEED, Cannot on Rear, Air in LINE WHAT HELP

    OK< I read all the posts, Have a spongy front lever for the 2012 ABS system , decide to bleed rear.
    so did it normal, Nothing comes out of the rear, Pump, close, pump, close, etc.

    So I put a clear hose over the bleeder valve loosened it, pumped sucked, closed, pumped sucked close, some fluid came out and lotssa bubbles, than no fluid (from the bleeder holes, I think)......I should be getting fluid, nothing coming out...

    ARRGH What is going on no fluid means no brakes in the rear, I have not taken it out on the road yet, but the light was NOT ON BEFORE.

    suggestions please.

  14. #29
    Registered User pappy35's Avatar
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    Just to be clear, you are doing this in exactly this order and never once skipped a step:

    1. Apply brake pressure.
    2. Hold brake pressure.
    3. SLOWLY open the nipple while maintaining pressure on the lever (or pedel).
    4. Let the lever (or pedal) sink slowly to the stop and HOLD.
    5. Close the nipple while holding it fully depressed.
    6. Release the lever (or pedal).


    It is critically important not to let up pressure on the lever (or pedal) until AFTER you fully close the nipple. If you let up on the lever (or pedal) at all you will suck air up into the fluid passages. It is also critical to keep enough fluid in the reservoir to not allow the intake to open to the air or, again, you'll be sucking air into the system.

    If you think you didn't do this correctly, then that's why your brakes feel mushy. Not to fear though. Make sure you have enough brand-new brake fluid on hand, and run through this procedure until you see no bubbles in the fluid coming out of the nipple (look at the tubing - which BTY need to be transparent).
    '13 R1200RT 90th Anniversary Edition

  15. #30
    Registered User pappy35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrtnfischer View Post
    What is going on no fluid means no brakes in the rear, I have not taken it out on the road yet, but the light was NOT ON BEFORE. Suggestions please.
    Seriously dude, not trying to be a jerk here but your life depends on the brakes working. If you don't know how to do this correctly, or don't understand what might be wrong, please take it to a shop. Do not ride it if you are not sure the brakes are fully functioning.
    '13 R1200RT 90th Anniversary Edition

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