Synthetic vs. Conventional Oil for 1200 Hexhead (RT)

greenwald · Dec 12, 2013

osbornk said:
I have read many oil threads on 3 motorcycle forums, 2 maxi-scooter forums, 3 truck forums and 3 car forums. Some posters like synthetic while others like conventional. Everyone is happy with their choice and nobody has a problem. The engine will normally last as long or longer than the rest of the vehicle regardless of which oil is used as long as it is properly maintained. Does it really matter?

Does it really matter?

The right question, but with two answers depending on perspective, hence the conundrum.

For the long term, while each 'corner' will hold fast to the belief that their chosen oil, be it dino or synthetic, is the right choice for their bike, they will always be competitors locked in an eternal battle in which no one ever lands a knockout blow.

Both bikes will likely last an equal amount of time with few, if any, oil-related issues. Everyone is happy.

But in the short term, that day-to-day operation of the machine, I enjoy the smother operation (viscosity), longer oil-change interval (cost savings) and lower operating temps (heat management) associated with synthetic oil use.

Syn vs. dino? No knockout punches, but syn wins each round by decision.

Firenailer · Dec 12, 2013

jfmoore430 said:
I have read many oil threads and to me it is an easier decision when I get Mobil 1 15w50 at Walmart for 24.95 for 5 Qts. At my age I won't out live this '11 1200 GSA but my son will be very happy that I took good care of it and then he can try to wear it out!

The RT has a dry clutch so I'm guessing the standard automotive 15/50 is fine?

EMSimon · Dec 12, 2013

...oil thread!!.... :bolt

natrab · Dec 12, 2013

I'm curious as to viscocities as the ones in the owners manual don't seem to correlate much with the tempuratures listed.

I'm getting a 2013 RT tomorrow and plan on putting in BMW stuff for the first oil change (not sure syn or dino, just going to buy it with the bike as i expect to be changing it within a day or two). Then I'm planning on getting the Amazon Castrol synthetic cases for the many future miles I plan to put on it.

The question is for California weather (25 - 100+ degrees F year round, mostly moderate), should I go with 10W40 or 10W50?

Is it worth switching for the winter and summer? I usually do 20-25k a year, so that's 3-4 oil changes yearly. Once my warranty is up, I may look at extending the interval between changes.

DROOT153718 · Dec 12, 2013

Only because you asked.

I would not extend the intervals. Oil does wear out in time. It also collects combustion by products. The only way to get rid of them is change the oil.

I have been a mechanic all my life. I am 53.

I have said to customers
"You blew your motor because it ran out of oil."
"You blew your motor because you did not change your oil."

I have never said
"You blew your motor because it had the wrong brand, weight or type." (syn or dino)

David

At 131,000 miles I decided to rebuild the motor in my 2000 R1100RT. It always had Dino. It was using oil, about 1/2 quart every 800 miles.

I tore the engine down. I could still see the hone marks in the cylinders. The ring end gaps (about .020") were lined up at 12:00 of all 3 rings on both sides. This is why it was burning oil.

Everybody make your own conclusions.

natrab said:
I'm curious as to viscocities as the ones in the owners manual don't seem to correlate much with the tempuratures listed.

I'm getting a 2013 RT tomorrow and plan on putting in BMW stuff for the first oil change (not sure syn or dino, just going to buy it with the bike as i expect to be changing it within a day or two). Then I'm planning on getting the Amazon Castrol synthetic cases for the many future miles I plan to put on it.

The question is for California weather (25 - 100+ degrees F year round, mostly moderate), should I go with 10W40 or 10W50?

Is it worth switching for the winter and summer? I usually do 20-25k a year, so that's 3-4 oil changes yearly. Once my warranty is up, I may look at extending the interval between changes.

cookie · Dec 12, 2013

I keep going back and forth. How many oil related catastrophic engine failures have been caused by clean fresh dino oil?
That's what I thought. Synthetic is good too.

natrab · Dec 13, 2013

DROOT153718 said:
Only because you asked.

I would not extend the intervals. Oil does wear out in time. It also collects combustion by products. The only way to get rid of them is change the oil.

I have been a mechanic all my life. I am 53.

I have said to customers
"You blew your motor because it ran out of oil."
"You blew your motor because you did not change your oil."

I have never said
"You blew your motor because it had the wrong brand, weight or type." (syn or dino)

David

At 131,000 miles I decided to rebuild the motor in my 2000 R1100RT. It always had Dino. It was using oil, about 1/2 quart every 800 miles.

I tore the engine down. I could still see the hone marks in the cylinders. The ring end gaps (about .020") were lined up at 12:00 of all 3 rings on both sides. This is why it was burning oil.

Everybody make your own conclusions.

I'm guessing most of those situations were due to people neglecting their vehicle. Did you have any where someone did oil analysis and based on that still did proper maintenance, but with extended intervals?

cookie · Dec 13, 2013

Isn't that incredible? I looked at the hone marks in the cylinders of my Ford F-150 with 206,000 miles ( we replaced head gaskets because it had a seep on the right rear and we replaced the chains and guides while we were at it). I changed the oil every 4,000 miles from brand new and used the factory recommended 5w20 dino oil and the cylinder walls still had hone marks that were very well defined not just ghost marks.
That means no metal to metal contact folks.
Today's oil is amazing and today's engineering and mechanical capability is what makes the engines last so long.
I was amazed when the BMW dealer head technician told me to change the oil every 3,000 miles on my 08 RT, I would have thought it would have been more like 4-5,000 miles as a rule. I do what I am told.

BC1100S · Dec 13, 2013

A suggested Christmas present for The Forum....

No oil threads in 2014 !

But seeing as its still 2013, here is my input: Clean oil good, dirty oil bad. End of enlightened contribution.

DROOT153718 · Dec 13, 2013

natrab said:
I'm guessing most of those situations were due to people neglecting their vehicle. Did you have any where someone did oil analysis and based on that still did proper maintenance, but with extended intervals?

If the intervals were extended then it would not be proper maintenance.

Not too many people are going to spend a few extra bucks on oil analysis that don't want to take the time or money to get an oil change. If you want to extend the interval, go for it. It may even work for you.

The latest one I saw was an 06 Saturn with a 4 cylinder. It went 77,000 miles with out an oil change. The valve train went first.
I have pulled a quite a few engines apart with 250,000 to 300,000 miles on them that looked like new inside. I won't argue with success.

Here is the rod bearing after 130,000 miles of Dino. It was worn .001"

Here are the rings lined up.

And the cylinder

Clean oil
Clean fuel
Clean air.

cookie · Dec 13, 2013

My Volvo-Penta 230 hp IO used 5w30 full synthetic from day one per factory recommendations and I know many euro manufacturers are full synthetic from day one.
I wonder how the rings seat or are they fitted so precise no break-in is required??
I love the monthly oil thread.
I check the forum every month or so and unfortunately many of the same old subjects get re-hashed but that's OK for the new folks.
I find the search is not very helpful at times.

natrab · Dec 13, 2013

cookie said:
I was amazed when the BMW dealer head technician told me to change the oil every 3,000 miles on my 08 RT, I would have thought it would have been more like 4-5,000 miles as a rule. I do what I am told.

Your dealer told you to change the oil every 3000 miles? It's 6000 miles by the manual and everything I've seen. I haven't heard of anyone doing twice as many oil changes on an RT.

srhodes13 · Dec 13, 2013

natrab said:
Your dealer told you to change the oil every 3000 miles? It's 6000 miles by the manual and everything I've seen. I haven't heard of anyone doing twice as many oil changes on an RT.

Cookie, totally agree with Natrab! Check out what your owners manual says. No one does 3000 mile oil change intervals any more. Engine metallurgy and oil technology are way better than they used to be!

bikerfish1100 · Dec 14, 2013

Firenailer said:
The RT has a dry clutch so I'm guessing the standard automotive 15/50 is fine?

sure. as long as it has the appropriate API rating (SF, SG, SH, etc). most car oils do not meet those standards, primarily for zinc, zddp, etc.. it's all about the additive package.

DROOT153718 · Dec 14, 2013

natrab said:
Your dealer told you to change the oil every 3000 miles? It's 6000 miles by the manual and everything I've seen. I haven't heard of anyone doing twice as many oil changes on an RT.

The RT in the above pictures had 3,000 mile oil and filter changes from new using mostly Napa 10w40. (Valvoline)

My 2012 R1200R gets the same. Its my decision. I use Wolfs Head 10W40 and inexpensive but good (I cut one apart) oil filter.

OK,I will shut up now. :blah

David

Firenailer · Dec 14, 2013

bikerfish1100 said:
sure. as long as it has the appropriate API rating (SF, SG, SH, etc). most car oils do not meet those standards, primarily for zinc, zddp, etc.. it's all about the additive package.

Hey BF - Thanks for the reply, I was starting to think that I was on the "pay no mind" list! I've seen the reference to Walmart Mobil 1 being used and wondered how many guys actually used it.

I do some of my own changes and in the past just bought whatever the dealer recommended when I stopped in during a day ride.

I may be changing it more often than it needs, but I still do it every 3000 as I only ride 4000-6000 a year now, and once a year seems too long to have oil sitting to me.

Oil IS fascinating, isn't it?

bikerfish1100 · Dec 14, 2013

go to 1x per year. seriously.
it is NO problem whatsoever. change in spring, dump in fall (assuming you put the bike up for the winter). more often than that is just wasting resources (oil, time, $), and the only ones benefitting from it are the oil industry, and the guys in the supply line that you buy the oil from.

for typical road riding, changing oil at 3K intervals is thoroughly and completely pointless. next time you think about doing so... just turn the key and go for a ride. it's better for you and the bike.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1900212

ducster · Dec 14, 2013

bikerfish1100 said:
go to 1x per year. seriously.
it is NO problem whatsoever. change in spring, dump in fall (assuming you put the bike up for the winter). more often than that is just wasting resources (oil, time, $), and the only ones benefitting from it are the oil industry, and the guys in the supply line that you buy the oil from.

for typical road riding, changing oil at 3K intervals is thoroughly and completely pointless. next time you think about doing so... just turn the key and go for a ride. it's better for you and the bike.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1900212

Old habits are hard to break. For many years I always changed the oil in my bikes @ 3k miles, and I still fight the urge to do an oil change every 3k miles even though I know it isn't necessary.

bikerfish1100 · Dec 15, 2013

natrab said:
I'm curious as to viscocities as the ones in the owners manual don't seem to correlate much with the tempuratures listed.

I'm getting a 2013 RT tomorrow and plan on putting in BMW stuff for the first oil change (not sure syn or dino, just going to buy it with the bike as i expect to be changing it within a day or two). Then I'm planning on getting the Amazon Castrol synthetic cases for the many future miles I plan to put on it.

The question is for California weather (25 - 100+ degrees F year round, mostly moderate), should I go with 10W40 or 10W50?

Is it worth switching for the winter and summer? I usually do 20-25k a year, so that's 3-4 oil changes yearly. Once my warranty is up, I may look at extending the interval between changes.

i think this will effectively address your question about which weight oil to use.

DROOT153718 · Dec 15, 2013

The chart above is for a Hexhead. BMW does not recommend 20W-50 for a camhead.

David

Edit: from the 2012 manual

Above -4f or above -20c
5W-40
5W-50
10W-50

Above 14F or above -10c
10W-40
Above 32f or above 0c
15W-40

If you are going to ride at -4f, your balls are bigger than mine!

Synthetic vs. Conventional Oil for 1200 Hexhead (RT)

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