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Is there a FIX for Oil Head surging? 95' R1100R
- Thread starter james1300
- Start date
Have a look at the BMW document that shows how the coding plugs were meant to be used. (Although the RT isn't shown on this it is the same as the RS.) By comparing this and the parts list you can see that the R and GS share the same heads, cams and intake tubes.
So I'd say that no plug (which means ignore the O2 sensor and use a fixed fuel table for the RT/RS) is okay but a better plug would be Beige (30-87a). The beige plug says to the Motronic that your bike is an R1100R or an R1100GS and that it should ignore the O2 sensor--Open Loop fueling. When you run Open Loop configurations, the Moteonic looks for something called a CO Potentiometer which it measures to set idle Carbon Monoxide, and hence AFR settings.
I have measured a spark advance timing difference on the R1150RT (my bike) for the RT plug vs. the GS plug. So an educated guess would be that Spark Advance is more different between the coding plugs and fueling is more similar.
So my bottom line, if you like the way it runs, keep it as it is.
RB
Thanks!..well then I'll leave it as it is , as it runs fine. I [had] a surge , but TB balance cured that. @ the same time I checked the TPS reference signal / voltage and it was within spec. We do not have allot of E/10-15 gas here [S,Ohio] so I haven.t had to contend with that. And I really haven't encountered it much out traveling yet.
roger 04 rt
New member
You're fortunate. In Massachusetts E10 is all we have ... And it leans out a "coding plugless" bike a lot.
I've got an early '94 R1100RS. Added a Staintune exhaust system, removed the carbon canister. could'nt get it to run smooth. Generally, it was just out of wack. I was gettin ready to put everything back stock, when I found about Techlusian TFi. Ordered the one for my bike. Followed their instructions for hookup and adjustments. Bike ran like a champ. That was over 10 years ago and I've been happy with the results.
I know it's more cost, but does a fuel additive help?
One reason I ask?...if the weather ever mellows out. I would like to travel up east [New England} maybe yet this year. Was up that way on 07, but the people I was with wanted to head home early...
One reason I really prefer to travel alone...
roger 04 rt
New member
I know it's more cost, but does a fuel additive help?
One reason I ask?...if the weather ever mellows out. I would like to travel up east [New England} maybe yet this year. Was up that way on 07, but the people I was with wanted to head home early...
You're not missing anything here now, cold and very rainy.
I'm not aware of an additive that would richen fuel with e10. It takes more (by weight) e10 fuel (compared with non-ethanol gasoline) to achieve a given air to fuel ratio--about 4% more.
When there is a functioning O2 sensor, the Motronic can figure out that it needs more fuel. On an r1100 when you select a coding plug (or don't have one) that tells the Motronic to ignore the O2 sensor it loses the ability to compensate for e10 (and other variations).
scott.lambert
New member
Yeah I may have (ahem) failed to emphasize the ethanol problem.
...I also think I know a lot about bears. Never seen one...
wineguyd
WineGuyD
Read my thread "why am I only getting 25mpg"
Check your front calipers by spinning the front wheel while on the center stand, if it does not spin freely you might have friction going on that can give the same sensation as surging. I'm currently going through hell with this exact issue.
Check your front calipers by spinning the front wheel while on the center stand, if it does not spin freely you might have friction going on that can give the same sensation as surging. I'm currently going through hell with this exact issue.
Do you suspect an ABS malfunction? In this part of the country it can be just rusted / corroded calipers!
ANDYVH
New member
My early 94RS has never surged. But it is an early RS which never had a CAT Code plug from stock. But here are some other aspects of the bike which may help:
1. I regularly run Techron through the fuel to keep it clean
2. Autolite 3923 plugs, inexpensive and really durable
3. Well balanced setup of valves, timing and throttle body balance
After I modded the exhaust, it leaned out the fuel mix enough to cause excessive exhaust "pop" (not backfiring, its never should be called backfiring) and some slight surging. So I installed a Techlusion and it cleared right back up. The bike runs smooth, no surging, clean/strong acceleration, mid 40's fuel mileage. So in my opinion the issue is all about getting the bike fuel system cleaned up, get it to run slightly more rich if it does not respond well to TB balance.
1. I regularly run Techron through the fuel to keep it clean
2. Autolite 3923 plugs, inexpensive and really durable
3. Well balanced setup of valves, timing and throttle body balance
After I modded the exhaust, it leaned out the fuel mix enough to cause excessive exhaust "pop" (not backfiring, its never should be called backfiring) and some slight surging. So I installed a Techlusion and it cleared right back up. The bike runs smooth, no surging, clean/strong acceleration, mid 40's fuel mileage. So in my opinion the issue is all about getting the bike fuel system cleaned up, get it to run slightly more rich if it does not respond well to TB balance.
roger 04 rt
New member
Looking at the BMW service bulletin I added to the thread a few posts back, you would seem to have a "Yellow Coding Plug" hardwired into your harness. Does that sound right to you?
Also, is there a socket in your electrical box or is that space blank?
I agree with your advice that I've highlighted, and also that in its day Techlusion was a reasonable choice. I would think now that the enrichment choices would be: 1) no plug or Beige plug depending on the R1100 model, 2) no plug or beige plus a BoosterPlug or 3) if you want to maintain closed loop operation and have some adjustment range a BMW-AF-XIED or LC-1.
The problem was happening in the 1990's long before Ethanol gas was brought onto the market.
It was doing it BEFORE the injectors had a chance to get dirty.
I am now running 91 octane e-free fuel.
My '1995' R1100R is a US market machine. It came with a CAT-CODE plug (pink) and a O2 sensor.
Techlusion kit>>http://www.techlusion.com/shopping/viewproduct.asp?pid=11
It says to disconnect O2 sensor 'if equipped'.
OR, if I want the O2 sensor 'intact' use the (R259 model) kit>>http://www.techlusion.com/instructions/1033ST.pdf
Then there is also this kit>>>http://www.electronicjetkit.com/instructions/9110014_Blue4A_BMW_1333ST.pdf
This looks like a 'Plug and Play' install.
Would you try the Beige plug 1st? Or, go right to the Techlusion kit?
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roger 04 rt
New member
The Techlusion never leaves the O2 intact. Even when you connect the O2 plugs on the R259 model, it has to internally disconnect the O2 to add fuel. The Motronic fights back a bit so you have to add even more fuel than is optimal.
I have the O2 version on loan and will test it and report what it does next month or so.
RB
I have the O2 version on loan and will test it and report what it does next month or so.
RB
happy wanderer
Day Dreaming ...
I had an R259 Techlusion box on my first 1996 R1100 RT. I had the older original model (top one) shown in the photo below.
I had several long chats with the support people at Dobeck Performance on what it does and how it works. Basically it lengthens the pulses to the injectors themselves. You only connect to one injector as they both go off at the same time.
When and how much is adjustable with four trimpots. I am really not sure what the O2 model did with the O2 sensor signal. My understanding from the Dobeck guys was it was used for reference and not modified. In any case, my 96 RT was a Euro model and had no O2 sensor anyway. The connector coming from the ECU was sealed off with a vinyl plug as there was nothing to connect to.
This was all over the phone and may have been hearsay or just what they wanted the customer to "know". I did not do any serious testing however it did improve the bike's performance somewhat. Did it completely cure surging? In a word, no.
I had several long chats with the support people at Dobeck Performance on what it does and how it works. Basically it lengthens the pulses to the injectors themselves. You only connect to one injector as they both go off at the same time.
When and how much is adjustable with four trimpots. I am really not sure what the O2 model did with the O2 sensor signal. My understanding from the Dobeck guys was it was used for reference and not modified. In any case, my 96 RT was a Euro model and had no O2 sensor anyway. The connector coming from the ECU was sealed off with a vinyl plug as there was nothing to connect to.
This was all over the phone and may have been hearsay or just what they wanted the customer to "know". I did not do any serious testing however it did improve the bike's performance somewhat. Did it completely cure surging? In a word, no.
Rinty
New member
That's how I see it, as well. Like the OP, I had a machine that was untunable. I understand there are some around.
roger 04 rt
New member
The R1200 dual O2 sensor BMSK does a great job of balancing AFRs between the two cylinders. The effect of that on engine smoothness shouldn't be underestimated. Here is the plot of AFR for both cylinders after about a tank of fuel was run through an R1200GSA Camhead. The AFRs track exceptionally well the average looks nearly perfect and even the acceleration and deceleration changes match very well.
For earlier Oilheads, given that every component has a tolerance, there will be engines that have the tolerances that effect Air-Fuel-Ratio (AFR) stacking up in the wrong direction. An estimate might be that a 0-10% AFR spread could be expected to occur. Those who have small natural AFR spreads (0-2%) will have good results when they adjust the TB balance and valves. Those few who have engines where AFR varies at the 8-10% extreme will not be able to get the AFRs to match no matter how much they tinker with TB balance and valve adjustment. It seems as simple as that to me.
If you richen the mixture on an R1100 or R1150, you move the operating point on the chart below to the left, from the Stoichiometric line where the O2 sensor forces it to run. As you do that you hit the top of the curve (Best Power Mixture) where changes in mixture don't affect the power output. That will compensate the fuel delivery part of AFR imbalance very well. An LC-1 or BMW-AF-XIED allows you to shift to the left precisely and a bit at a time.
Plugs ordered...
After checking at three Auto parts stores and getting the run around from (2) of them. I ordered a pair of Bosch 4418's from Amazon. $8.88 delivered.
That beats the heck out of $7.85 each from Autozone. Who told me they had them. Then tried to sell me NGK's. I don't mind the wait. I've been waiting a long time already.
2x Bosch (4418) FGR8DQP Platinum +4 Spark Plug, Pack of 1
Sold by Titan Direct
Condition: New
$8.88
Item Subtotal: $8.88
Shipping & Handling: $0.00
Total Before Tax: $8.88
Shipment Total: $8.88
It pay's to shop.
After checking at three Auto parts stores and getting the run around from (2) of them. I ordered a pair of Bosch 4418's from Amazon. $8.88 delivered.
That beats the heck out of $7.85 each from Autozone. Who told me they had them. Then tried to sell me NGK's. I don't mind the wait. I've been waiting a long time already.
2x Bosch (4418) FGR8DQP Platinum +4 Spark Plug, Pack of 1
Sold by Titan Direct
Condition: New
$8.88
Item Subtotal: $8.88
Shipping & Handling: $0.00
Total Before Tax: $8.88
Shipment Total: $8.88
It pay's to shop.
Last edited:
I wonder...
If after I take the bike to a BMW dealer and get it tuned-up. Re-check valves and sync. inj's.
If If it would be a good thing to take a trip to Montana and have the people who
build the 'Techlusion box's' install and tune it on my bike?
roger 04 rt
New member
Below is the back of the Techlusion Package. A couple of things about the data. Instead of referring to AFR targets (e.g. 14.1:1) they are using Carbon Monoxide (CO) targets. They are roughly one in the same but referring to CO keeps them from having to get into discussions about what is the best AFR target--makes things more obscure. Fortunately there are easy conversions, here is one: http://www.mgexp.com/article/co-afr.html.
The box below shows a CO target of 2.8% in cruise. This equates to a relatively rich 13.45:1. They also show a WOT CO target of about 5% which is an AFR of 12.64:1 this is not far off what your bike already does. The Full Throttle Curve shows the stock motorcycle (don't know if generic or Oilhead) not producing Full Power AFRs until 4000 RPM or so. This is not true. Our Oilheads deliever a Best Power (or better) mixture from 1800 RPM on up without any modification.
Shifting Lambda at the O2 sensor, as I've mentioned, gives you more precision in the amount shifted, and maintains full Closed Loop operation which the Techlusion does not. It is likely that a cruise AFR somewhere between 14.1:1 and 13.8:1 would give you the performance you're looking for, and better fuel economy than the Techlusion recommendations.
(I have a Techlusion and am planning to show its results sometime in the next month.)
The box below shows a CO target of 2.8% in cruise. This equates to a relatively rich 13.45:1. They also show a WOT CO target of about 5% which is an AFR of 12.64:1 this is not far off what your bike already does. The Full Throttle Curve shows the stock motorcycle (don't know if generic or Oilhead) not producing Full Power AFRs until 4000 RPM or so. This is not true. Our Oilheads deliever a Best Power (or better) mixture from 1800 RPM on up without any modification.
Shifting Lambda at the O2 sensor, as I've mentioned, gives you more precision in the amount shifted, and maintains full Closed Loop operation which the Techlusion does not. It is likely that a cruise AFR somewhere between 14.1:1 and 13.8:1 would give you the performance you're looking for, and better fuel economy than the Techlusion recommendations.
(I have a Techlusion and am planning to show its results sometime in the next month.)
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