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2013 R1200RT....motor oil question...

wyman.winn

i should be out riding!
ok, when i do the 6k mile service i will be changing the FD and Gearbox with the approved Castrol BMW spec'd gear lube.....

i know BMW Motorrad prefers Castrol synthetic motor oils for the motor, but would there be an issue with using Mobil 1 15w50 instead....on my recent 600 "running-in" service the paper work noted the special gear lube for the FD but only synthetic motor oil for the crankcase...and a BMW oil filter....

thanks in advance for any and all help...

wyman
 
Hi Wyman:

You can use any motor oil, synthetic or not, that meets the API service specification for the engine. I use 20W50 full synthetic in the engine, and 75W140 full synthetic gear lube in the transmission and final drive. For severe service, synthetic is preferred for a number of reasons.

BTW: There is no "special" gear lube for the FD and transmission. Raise the BS flag on that one !
 
Hi Wyman:

You can use any motor oil, synthetic or not, that meets the API service specification for the engine. I use 20W50 full synthetic in the engine, and 75W140 full synthetic gear lube in the transmission and final drive. For severe service, synthetic is preferred for a number of reasons.

BTW: There is no "special" gear lube for the FD and transmission. Raise the BS flag on that one !

Wait a minute...It is "SPECIAL" due to the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ they charge for it!
 
i asked a specific question....looking for a specific answer...

i know all about oil threads and the passion they bring.....

please, simply answer the question....

wyman
 
Oh Wyman, don't get edgy with your sounding board. People tend to run from, make fun of or just ignore oil threads, as you must know, since you know oil threads. You have one legit answer already...and that's the problem with oil threads, specific or not....one person's legit answer is another person's reason to laugh. Hope you find the answer you're looking for.
 
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Any oil that meets the specs outlined in your Rider's Manual is fine as far as BMW is concerned. The brand and specific forulation is somewhat irrelevant.
 
for hours of oil thread enjoyment:

http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?63581-Oil-Analysis-Update&highlight=oil+analysis

This excellent article was done by our airhead moderator, at his expense and effort. Much appreciated. I really think BMW prefers to sell their own oil. Made by Spectro. Excellent stuff, really slippery. I like to do my own service and prefer the nice red BMW synthetic gear oil..You could see any metal in the FD when you drain it, which I prefer to do at every rear tire change. My own conclusion is that Castrol GTX car oil would be fine as well as Mobil 1 15/50 car oil since it also has plenty of zddp.

However since my bike is still in warranty, and I like to support my local (100 miles away) dealer, I usually buy my oil and filters from them. That way you have records of purchases in the very remote chance you ever have a failure.

You are a pretty new member right? Please don't be offended at a little playful sarcasm. The folks on this forum are extremely helpful. If your feelings are easily hurt, don't read anything from Ichris from New Mexico, never go on the Boxerworks forum or the ADV riders forum. (That was an example of playful sarcasm!)
 

BTW: There is no "special" gear lube for the FD and transmission. Raise the BS flag on that one !

You're simply mistaken on this. Spec is Castrol SAF-XO for both. It's on the service DVD and it's all BMW now supplies its USA dealers. There is no equivalent sold down to NAPA or Pep Boys.

OP can use his Mobil choice with no problem. FWIW BMW (motorcycles only) is the ONLY German vehicle sold in the USA that pays any attention at all to such mundane things as API. The rest all have published specs that define a limited number of motor oils, all synthetic.
 
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OK, i give.....

in the interest of the BMW warranty, and for its duration, i will purchase the "approved and recommended" lubricants and oil filter from BMW Motorcycles of Ventura County.....

thanks for ALL of the advice and opinions....ALL worthy...

wyman
 
Wyman please go and get a bowl of that wonderful Andersons split pea soup and chill Mobil 1 is fine for the boxer engines.
 
Wyman please go and get a bowl of that wonderful Andersons split pea soup and chill Mobil 1 is fine for the boxer engines.

actually the Pea Soup Anderson's Split Pea Soup tastes like crap these days.....guess they lost the original recipe.....LOL

wyman
 
http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?63581-Oil-Analysis-Update&highlight=oil+analysis

This excellent article was done by our airhead moderator, at his expense and effort. Much appreciated. I really think BMW prefers to sell their own oil. Made by Spectro. Excellent stuff, really slippery. I like to do my own service and prefer the nice red BMW synthetic gear oil..You could see any metal in the FD when you drain it, which I prefer to do at every rear tire change. My own conclusion is that Castrol GTX car oil would be fine as well as Mobil 1 15/50 car oil since it also has plenty of zddp.
Actually - no longer. BMW switched their oil supplier to Castrol now from Spectro, and the bottles are labeled as such.

This encouraged me to go a step further and do something I'd considered doing for a long time. I've switched over to Castrol TWS 10W-60 oil. It's a German made oil, a full Class-4 PAO synthetic, with amazingly good longevity and about the highest ZDDP number I've seen on any modern oil. It was formulated by BMW and Castrol for a series of their M-Car engines (one of which also lives in my garage) to try to protect some flawed bearings from going bad, and provide adequate protection to the valve train, which is a "flat-tappet" sort of design.

I've had it tested numerous times by Blackstone for my M cars and the results have been excellent. Almost no sign of viscosity breakdown, excellent ash-point, and good TEN/TBN numbers even when used to the factory spec'd 15,000 miles in the M engine. It's good stuff, and my engine seems happier with it (totally subjective - but to me quieter/smoother-feeling is happier.) The engine also seems to be running about 1-bar cooler on the temperature gauge (first bar above the thermostat-opening bar, even in 100F temps like today.) I'll likely get it tested when I change it on the bike also to see how it's doing and if an extended change interval is possible.

Cost is less then the Motorrad gets for their semi-synthetic (labeled synthetic) repackaged Castrol. With a BMW Car Club of America discount, I'm out of the BMW car dealer with it for around $12/liter. My friendly local dealer is charging ~$15/quart for the repackaged Castrol.

Oh - TWS isn't at AutoZone. There may be some "EDGE" Castrol oil there, most of it isn't the same thing. The "EDGE 10W-60" is.. but none of the big box stores carry it. It's easier to get it by visiting a BMW car dealer (and you get lots of interesting stares when you ride up, and then walk through the showroom in a well worn Aerostich.. :))
However since my bike is still in warranty, and I like to support my local (100 miles away) dealer, I usually buy my oil and filters from them. That way you have records of purchases in the very remote chance you ever have a failure.
Excellent idea.. I did the same even when my bike was under an extended warranty I'd purchased. Thing is - nothing really broke so I never had to prove adequate service. Better that then the alternative though.. :)
You are a pretty new member right? Please don't be offended at a little playful sarcasm. The folks on this forum are extremely helpful. If your feelings are easily hurt, don't read anything from Ichris from New Mexico, never go on the Boxerworks forum or the ADV riders forum. (That was an example of playful sarcasm!)
 
actually the Pea Soup Anderson's Split Pea Soup tastes like crap these days.....guess they lost the original recipe.....LOL

wyman

WOW. What a disappointment back in the sixties and seventies Buellton was my favorite Sunday ride to get
a bowl of soup and some rolls then a trip down to the wine cellar.
back in the day a tureen of soup and a basket of rolls was a buck and it was all you could eat.
 
Castrol Power RS Racing 4T available at Cycle Gear, etc., is euro-produced and USA packaged and I think surely isn't semi-synthetic masquerading (legally approved) as full synthetic as is 'merikun Castrol and I'd think is the same as Power1 Racing 4T as recommended in Europe. Maybe at least some of the BMW labeled Castrol is this.

Additionally I'd think the camhead engine (subject of this thread) doesn't qualify as a "flat tappet" engine--am I confused on this?
 


You're simply mistaken on this. Spec is Castrol SAF-XO for both. It's on the service DVD and it's all BMW now supplies its USA dealers. There is no equivalent sold down to NAPA or Pep Boys.

OP can use his Mobil choice with no problem. FWIW BMW (motorcycles only) is the ONLY German vehicle sold in the USA that pays any attention at all to such mundane things as API. The rest all have published specs that define a limited number of motor oils, all synthetic.

With respect, you need to look at the data sheet:

http://www.ge39.com/files/SAF_XO_SAF_XJ_B1174_96.pdf

Castrol SAF-XO is rated as a synthetic API GL-5 SAE 75W90 . It is RECOMMENDED and not REQUIRED. There is nothing special about it other than BMW probably gets revenue from Castrol for allowing use of the brand name on the bottles. If BMW actually required use of only this oil, under the Magnuson-Moss warranty act, they would have to supply it FREE to the consumer, which does not happen.

My statement stands. There is nothing "special" about the Castrol oil. Any GL-5 75W90 or better multigrade gear lube is acceptable, as is the properly rated engine oil.


For Wyman:

You can use the Mobil-1 oil. The engine does not care what brand is in it. BMW recommends certain specification lube oils and as long as you use the proper rated oil you are fine. I happen to use Amsoil oils in all my vehicles, and BMW does not care. I bring my own oils to the dealership, and they don't care either. The Amsoil lubes are noted in the service record, and that is it.
 
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Additionally I'd think the camhead engine (subject of this thread) doesn't qualify as a "flat tappet" engine--am I confused on this?

Yes - and no. Is it a traditional "flat-tappet" - no, but.. The finger-follower design used on the camhead engine is a derivative of the design used on the S54 engines used in E46 M3's and M-Coupes. It's a sliding flat surface that runs against the camshaft. A roller bearing follower is the alternative follower design, and doesn't need as much ZDDP to protect it.

I have seen M3 engines where the camshaft lobe had fractures in it due to lubrication failure - and likely this was caused by using the wrong oil and high RPMs. I've seen the same sort of failures on airhead engines (which use a "traditional" round/flat follower on the camshaft.)

The significant difference is a sliding contact vs a rolling contact. The sliding contact requires better protection since a lubrication failure will cause the camshaft to be damaged by metal to metal contact. Not so much for a roller-follower (which is used on most energy saving auto engines now.)

So more ZDDP is a good thing for the hexhead and camhead engines. The ZDDP number (this is from memory, I'd have to dig out one of my reports to confirm it) - for the Castrol TWS was above 1,600PPM. That's about as high as I've seen on any modern oil, and makes sense with the engine the oil was designed for.

I like it. My engine seems "happy" with it, and the cost was less than the BMW Motorrad oil. Superior protection at a lower price point works for me. In addition, I like the viscosity range. The 60 (hot) viscosity will only be seen when the engine is really hot, but given our weather in NJ that seems to be happening with some frequency. The 10W (winter) viscosity is about perfect for my riding - which is year round and my bike is often started up and ridden in 30F temps. Makes for quicker oil pressure buildup and circulation with less stress on the starter motor and already weak (due to the cold) battery. One other upside - if travelling and you need some oil - it's available at any BMW car dealership. There are lots more of them than there are BMW bike dealerships.
 
Castrol SAF-XO is rated as a synthetic API GL-5 SAE 75W90 .

So, all synthetics are the same, right?

No, SAF-XO is specially designed for long change intervals, even "lifetime" fill. Show me another that is.

BMW uses it in its cars too, this one for non-limited-slip diffs, another for LSDs. They're specially developed for BMW. Again, lifetime fill applications. It is NOT the same formula as typical PepBoys stuff.

The R1200 service DVD calls for it specifically whereas for other bikes, e.g. oilheads, the manual will simply specify 90 wt or the like.
 
So, all synthetics are the same, right?

No, SAF-XO is specially designed for long change intervals, even "lifetime" fill. Show me another that is.

BMW uses it in its cars too, this one for non-limited-slip diffs, another for LSDs. They're specially developed for BMW. Again, lifetime fill applications. It is NOT the same formula as typical PepBoys stuff.

The R1200 service DVD calls for it specifically whereas for other bikes, e.g. oilheads, the manual will simply specify 90 wt or the like.

Apparently the specially developed oil must be good for British iron also.. Land Rover uses it in their differentials (that was THE source in the USA before BMW started selling it.) I believe the Brits were using it first.
 
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