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A World First - Usage Based Insurance (Telematics) for Motorcycles

If I understand Massachusetts insurance, PIP stops protecting you once you throw a leg over your bike, you can be standing next to it and they will pay you the state limit of $8,000. You have to buy medical payments coverage (MPC) to get any coverage, and my supplier limited me to $25,000 (see how far that goes), and I'm paying almost the same for MPC as the rest of my insurance coverage. To get your wages covered for income we would have to buy personal disability insurance. If we include all the coverage jopars has - I wonder how much our insurance would cost?
 
If anyone is still interested after all the above, and has about 48 minutes of their riding season to give up, here's the link to a presentation given by the equipment supplier to a motorcycle focus group. Other links on the page direct to FAQs, etc.

http://www.sgipilot.ca/learn-about-telematics/

JP

Unless I missed it..........there was no mention of safety equipment which should be a significant factor in PIP costs. The telematics focused solely on driving habits which is fine if safety equipment is standardized as in a care. However, in the case of a motorcycle, safety equipment and it's quality is pretty optional.

And, yes, it is a GPS tracking device that maintains a record of your travels. That will be an interesting pill for many folks in the US to swallow, but according to corporate statistics, these systems are quite common in the US. I assume the CEO was referring to fleet operations and Progressive's Snapshot device.
 
If I understand Massachusetts insurance, PIP stops protecting you once you throw a leg over your bike, you can be standing next to it and they will pay you the state limit of $8,000. You have to buy medical payments coverage (MPC) to get any coverage, and my supplier limited me to $25,000 (see how far that goes), and I'm paying almost the same for MPC as the rest of my insurance coverage. To get your wages covered for income we would have to buy personal disability insurance. If we include all the coverage jopars has - I wonder how much our insurance would cost?

More is the easy answer. However, if the activity is high risk, isn't it more logical to place the insurance cost with the activity instead of assuming that SS disability will carry the burden?
 
In KY a "PIP" wage benefit would work in my favor as I suspect(actually I'm wondering what is the case with "non workers" as a they seem to be able to collect on my insurance when they cause the accident!) that many of the uninsured also have no job & it would be difficult to pay someone 90% of zero? -thus my rates would go down?
As to no-fault in KY, there is a state form permitting one to decline that coverage.It's been around for as long as no fault on policies but I just found out about it a few yrs back. I suspect that very few do decline it or have even heard of the possibility to do so and furthermore many would either not know what it is or the possible result based on reading comprehension levels/level of effort/interest of many policy holders.
Thinking of the variances of human nature I wonder how many "worry warts" buy insurance they don't need? In the same line of thought, how many policy features cater to that sort of person instead of practical ,i.e., actuarial based features?
In the last few days news they (national surveys) have said that in respect to insuring people with our "new" national health care(name unspoken here-;)ha!) there are many persons that already have "free coverage", yet don't even bother to sign up for it! Throw that into the idea of you & me paying for the other persons medical coverage in an accident via a vehicle insurance policy. It seems we are paying for those that don't care enough to sign up... :scratch
 
In the last few days news they (national surveys) have said that in respect to insuring people with our "new" national health care(name unspoken here-;)ha!) there are many persons that already have "free coverage", yet don't even bother to sign up for it! Throw that into the idea of you & me paying for the other persons medical coverage in an accident via a vehicle insurance policy. It seems we are paying for those that don't care enough to sign up... :scratch

When not signing up saves the state money on that "free coverage" it behooves the state to not inform those eligible of the benefit. Those programs are funded thru the states via block grants. Interestingly, the same states that choose to not inform are also the ones that are fastest to sign people up for SS disability, a federally funded program.
 
Everyone in US has to buy federally mandated health insurance on Jan first, 2014, unless exempted willy nilly, or somehow you have a private insurer not yet absorbed. As far as I know, which changes minute by minute. Once it kicks in, then we'll find out what the gov bean counters think of our risky activities. AFAIK, after Jan first a federal agency could merely make whatever judgement it wishes in the interest of the welfare of the people. Reality will kick at that point. this beyond interesting. The whole insurance industry appears to be on the table looking to SGI.
 
Everyone in US has to buy federally mandated health insurance on Jan first, 2014, unless exempted willy nilly, or somehow you have a private insurer not yet absorbed. As far as I know, which changes minute by minute. Once it kicks in, then we'll find out what the gov bean counters think of our risky activities. AFAIK, after Jan first a federal agency could merely make whatever judgement it wishes in the interest of the welfare of the people. Reality will kick at that point. this beyond interesting. The whole insurance industry appears to be on the table looking to SGI.

You should watch the 48-minute presentation provided by JP. The corporation references the number of similar systems in-use around the world. Guess what, the US is the land where these systems are most frequently used. If I was a fleet operator, you can bet that I would have these systems on board of every vehicle. Your insurance company is just making the same decision about the prices they charge you.

And, just google BioMetric testing.........it's been here for a while. It's how your employer (if self-insured) or insurance company assessed their pooled risk exposure. It's not some outside evil power that's doing this........it's the free market determining a "market" price for your risk. If you don't want the test or the on-board device, they'll have a special price, you'll just love.
 
At this point I can still negotiate with my insurer exactly what I wish to insure. For instance, I no longer need income insurance on my vehicle policies.

The Manitoban pays what he is told he has to pay. He couldn't believe that I could shop around and taylor my insurance to my individual requirements. For instance, an old airhead may not be worth the premiums over a few years to carry comprehensive. Control versus freedom of action.

Concerning riding in the northern climes and in general the miles ridden per year, and the actual number of titled bikes, AFAIK there isn't much of a problem with insuring motorcycles or their riders' health insurance. I'd love to see the actuary numbers as compared to say obesity. In my state thus far 26 motorcycle fatalities, some of which because of animals, others bad driving or lack of ATGATT and others just bad luck/timing.
 
Control versus freedom of action.

Since the hospital can't deny you care and the Dr. can't stop treating you when the money runs out..........your freedom of action is pretty much something you'll never be responsible for.
 
Like I said, don't think there is a numbers problem. 17 K people are murdered per year. Can't imagine how many are grievously injured at our expense. don't think there is a numbers problem with motorcycle injuries. Obesity is a huge problem, lack of exercise another, once in a while someone is injured while riding. But riders are an easy target because it scares the bejeebers out of non riders.

I think there are about 7 million bikes registered in the US, most of which sit in garages most of time. Civilian autos and light trucks, not sure, but somewhere around 250 million. Just back from a road trip up interstate 29, saw very few bikes and it's summer. Saw a lot of cars and trucks. when temps drop see no bikes.

think of what could effectively be done to limit hospital visits? Like placing a scale at the supermarket checkout and limit purchases of junk food by body mass. Or we could have a SKU card on a chain around our necks listing our blood pressure, our HDL/LDL levels, our genetic composition, and then only approved insurance/government foods allowed. Just think much better off we'd be. What fun.
 
Like I said, don't think there is a numbers problem. 17 K people are murdered per year. Can't imagine how many are grievously injured at our expense. don't think there is a numbers problem with motorcycle injuries. Obesity is a huge problem, lack of exercise another, once in a while someone is injured while riding. But riders are an easy target because it scares the bejeebers out of non riders.

I think there are about 7 million bikes registered in the US, most of which sit in garages most of time. Civilian autos and light trucks, not sure, but somewhere around 250 million. Just back from a road trip up interstate 29, saw very few bikes and it's summer. Saw a lot of cars and trucks. when temps drop see no bikes.

think of what could effectively be done to limit hospital visits? Like placing a scale at the supermarket checkout and limit purchases of junk food by body mass. Or we could have a SKU card on a chain around our necks listing our blood pressure, our HDL/LDL levels, our genetic composition, and then only approved insurance/government foods allowed. Just think much better off we'd be. What fun.

Approximately 50% of all motorcycle accidents are single vehicle events. No other vehicles involved.........just the cycle and the rider. If the rider isn't wearing a helmet.........head trauma is likely. Of course, we have lots of folks that want to be "Bad for the Weekend" and they need to show that they are protecting the "Right of Stupidity".

Relative to obesity, Biometric testing is being instituted by employers and insurance companies to bring you the future you feel is equitable. It's the beauty of the free market......employers are reducing their costs. Just for reference, a health insurance policy for a 2-person household runs between $9,000 and 14,000 per year these days when you consider the employer and employee cost. That's 20~30% of the median household income. My MC policy costs ~$300.
 
Ins

I feel for all youse guys, honestly I do. I regularly shop my insurance, to price check if nothing else, but have kept the current policy for the last 5 years, 208.00 full coverage/yr. on my 04 Rockster. I am 62, with no accidents/claims on any bike ever, and also live in Pa.
 
Just read a Regina Leader article on the SGI rate increases. SGI says there is a 9 million dollar liability gap because of too many claims. Exact numbers were not listed, the comments were most interesting.

Personally a private industry is far more desirable then an unchallengeable gov. Agency who's word is final law, which you are compelled by legal mandate to follow. I can yet call up my agent and negotiate more medical, less comp., and so forth. And if I don't like the service provided, find a different carrier. I wonder how Manitoba Autopac and SGI were first sold to the voter? Was it that eliminating profit would make it cheap? I think so.
 
Considering the Conservative government in Saskatchewan, I would be interested in whether there is a privatisation move here. I'm naturally suspicious of insurance companies after some of the changes in Ontario, like 50% medical reduction but same premium, increases in insurance every year regardless of driving record, motorcycle insurance based on engine size, not on years of riding and safety record. If profit is a motive, I'm suspicious. Maybe I should sign this as a paranoid. Sorry about the rant.
 
Things being as they are in this modern, 21st century world, we are but a walking target market. Every move is tracked and analysed, and fed right back to us, based on our own actions.

You have a:

Mobile phone? Got your calls, contacts, and locations/movements.
Bank/ATM/credit card(s)? Got your buying habits and money incoming and outgoing, AND location & movement.
PC? Smart phone? Got your browsing history, shopping habits, flights booked, banking & billing info.
Car with OnStar? Got your driving habits and movements.
Facebook? "Free" account with ANYBODY? YOU are the product.

Face it. You are OUT. Nobody is hiding anything. Get over it, get over yourself. Big Brother has grown up while you were watching, right under your nose. And you A: didn't make one move to quash him, and B: it wouldn't matter if you had even tried.

NOW, back "on topic"- Insurance companies are among the most powerful corporations in the world. OF COURSE they track you, and anything pertinent to them, and to their OWN bottom line/profit margin. I'm not certain which is really worse- an insurance company on its own, or a government running an insurance plan on its citizens. In the end, how much does it really matter, if you have zero control over which it is destined to be?

In the case of Canada- the citizens, at the very least, know they are paying exorbitantly for SOMETHING- socialized (OH THE HORROR!) medicine- if nothing else, their medical needs are taken care of. In the case of us poor suckers who are at the mercy of these mega corporations, we pay, pay, pay again, and pay some more. At the end of the day, what do you get for the thousands and thousands you pay? NOTHING, nada, zippo, ZERO. You don't get one flippin thing for all the hard earned $$$ you pay to these bandits. In fact, IF you should ever file a claim, you are made to feel like the criminal, and MAY be "dropped" for being too big a "risk".

But HEY! It's a "free market society" right? Having giant mega corporations competing with each other to see who gets to rape you, while their lobbyists and super pacs rule our government is AWESOME!

isn't it? :brow


The thing I see in all this, that makes the most sense to me, is that somebody is looking at peoples' habits, and may base costs for each person according to their lifestyle and general habits. In my case, this would work for me, and against me. I live a healthy lifestyle- stay strong, work hard, eat well, and don't smoke, do drugs, or drink excessively. On a bike, or in a car, I MIGHT fall into the more "aggressive" category however.
Let's just say I don't pussy-foot around when I gotta get somewhere. I'm not an @$$hole about it, but I usually go fast when on the open road, NOT "in town". So, while I may be OK with paying health care insurance according to my lifestyle, paying motor vehicle insurance according to my driving habits would offset any "savings".


In the end, there is but one thing which is absolutely certain- and one thing only. "Keeping costs down" is a sound-byte style catch phrase, very similar to "balancing the budget"- IE: total BS. Costs for insurance- and everything else- will go up, have been going up, and will always go up.

Period, bottom line, end of story.
 
Installation

Well I finally got the unit installed yesterday, and before my bike came out of the shop, I had the email confirming my activation. This particular shop didn't want me present in the shop during the operation, but prior to the install, the mechanic and I discussed the wheres and hows, and agreed on what was to be done, so I was comfortable enough. There's only one m/c shop in Moose Jaw, and it's not BMW, not that it's that important. I did have the option to go to the dealer (anywhere in the Province) of my choice.

It took about 30 minutes, including the above discussion. The unit itself is quite small, and only requires 3 connections. On my F650GS twin, the +12V and ground were easy, coming from the battery with ring connectors. For the +12V ignition switch, we decided to use the stub harness from the BMW accessory outlet that I long ago had replaced with a constant 12V. The quirk that the BMW outlet doesn't shut off with the ignition (but shuts off after about 3 minutes) does not present a problem to the unit. Seeing as the shop couldn't source a BMW connector to match the stub, we decided to bridge into the appropriate wire. We discussed using the supplied "scotchlocks", or removing enough insulation for a splice. I opted for the splice, (as the unit would be cut when/if ever removed) and I'll never need that stub anyway. Other options would be headlight circuits, or anything that is switched (more or less) by the ignition. The unit itself was zip-tied to the main wiring harness beside my fuel pump, under the seat. It could have been oriented in any direction, as its supposedly completely weatherproof.

I wasn't able to get any data from it for the first day, as its apparently common to have a data delay of 24 hours or so after initial activation. However, the ride I took last evening, as well as the ride I took this morning were there when I got home this morning. I'll cover the data and the displays in another post.

JP
 

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UBI without consideration of fault free motorcycle miles, safety and refresher traing is only getting 30% of the story. I would never wish to live in a part of our country that mandated provincial tax or insurance - I believe in free market completion pure and simple.

All of the posters before accurately state many of us already carry devices that track much of our activity. Why should anyone pay provincial tax to have them pay a software behemoth like SAP develope a solution when the free market world of Smartphone App developers could do it for nearly nothing using devices alre already aboard many of our rides?

This stuff sends a chill down my spine. I think I shall not take a break and relax on my deck with a homemade beverage and turn my iPhone OFF!
:blush
 
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Why should anyone pay provincial tax to have them pay a software behemoth like SAP develope a solution when the free market world of Smartphone App developers could do it for nearly nothing using devices alre already aboard many of our rides?

This stuff sends a chill down my spine. I think I shall not take a break and relax on my deck with a homemade beverage and turn my iPhone OFF!
:blush

I repeat, I don't want to be baited into discussing the philosophy of these devices, but your paranoia needs a retune. No provincial taxes are paying for this project. SGI (and most of the other Crowns) generate a modest profit for the Province and unlike many so-called "private" businesses, do not require or use tax dollars to operate or do research. The books are open to the public if anyone is in doubt. Additionally, the contractor is underwriting a portion of the project in hopes of future marketability.

SAP was chosen by the contractor as a partner because of their extensive experience in Formula 1 racing and other telemetry solutions. While there may potentially be cheaper alternatives (I suggest it'll take more than the average app developer), the choice is logical and appropriate given the complexity of the task.

Regardless, I appreciate the fact that our insurance company is prepared to work on innovative alternatives, rather than nonchalantly upping our rates without any regard or mercy.

JP
 
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