Quote Originally Posted by mika View Post
By the way you can ignore this question if you feel it's none of my business.

No intention to ignore the question.I started a reply this morning then was called in early to work. Work, a race update in BR&TMR and I am back at it again. I am already signed up for a MOOC over at Coursera.com and frankly don?t have the time or inclination to get involved in BMW MOA MBA wanabe thread. Please take this response as one big FWIW because I don?t intend defending it.

I will try and frame my response in terms of the OP. Apparently the simple question has been forgotten.

I am looking at. 2013 R1200R

Dealer told me that while the side bags are included by BMW, the dealer has to take a hit on them and they therefore do not have room for movement off of MSRP ?

If I buy new what should I expect to pay ?

Are there any MOA discounts ?

I took this a single transaction question. It involves a number of factors but at heart a simple negotiating question dealing with a single transaction. The OP was not able to come to an acceptable deal for both parties with the original dealer, went to another dealer and is taking delivery of a new R from them.

- I?m happy for the OP. He did what I have done in the past and I hope he enjoys his R as much as I enjoy mine.
- I don?t think the first dealer is good or bad. It just was not able to work a deal they felt benefited them and would make the sale.
- I don?t think the selling dealer is anything beyond one that had the business conditions and willingness to make the deal with the OP.

There is a reason behind the question.

The motorcycle industry is a fairly low profit margin industry especially given the fact that it is a true speciality industry at least in the USA. On a nationwide basis there is no such thing as selling major quantity as there is in automotive.

Confusing the forest for the trees.

Forest: The motorcycle industry overall is returning a reasonable profit for investors, paying dividends and expanding.

Trees: Dealers, as a species of trees that make up the forest are hard pressed and operating on slim margins.

The two are often confused when we talk about profitability and margins.

I was just interested in seeing profit margins from other industry's and how they compared and whether a given industry had mass market appeal or was considered speciality as I assume the margins would probably be different between the two..

As I said I have managed in a variety of industries. With very few exceptions these have been publicly held companies so the margins are out there in the filings, annual reports etc. I don?t mean it as a dodge but information you are looking for margins and specific strategies at the transaction level were things I was not to divulge when I worked for the companies and don?t feel inclined to do so in a thread on this forum. In several cases the information would be so moldy due to drastic changes in how these industries do business and price due to the way the industries evolved.

We run an extremely transparent store. I've operated that way for maybe 2 decades. Anyone who walks in the door is welcome to see dealer cost on anything. The margin of profit is nothing that needs to be hidden and I find it to be an educational tool as many people tend to assume we make more than reality

Transparency is the new cool term. For all the definitions and efforts at it I don?t think we understand its purpose or how to use it.

Percentages keep getting thrown around to describe margins. I have yet to be able to make payroll, pay bills, feed my family or buy toys with percentages. I can do all of those with dollars.

The OP had certain amount of dollars he wanted to spend on R1200R.

Dealer A has a business plan that in this case did not leave him the margin they felt they needed to make payroll, pay bills, feed my family or buy toys.

Dealer B was able to do that.

The trees need to be feed. Dealers need to have a margin that allows them to survive and hopefully thrive. Some trees are big. Some trees are small.

The OP is going riding this weekend.
Dealer A will open their shop and hopefully sell their R1200R and then go riding.
Dealer B will deliver a bike and have money to go out and make payroll, pay bills, feed my family or buy toys.

I have to catch up on class work, do some fun reading and work this weekend. Monday is a day off and I can play. You guys have fun with this rambling thread.
No offense. I thought it was a reasonable question for a number of reasons. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.