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Simple but brilliant tip

BCKRider

Kbiker
This was originally posted by AKsuited in "Crash Chronicles" and thought it deserved a wider audience:

"Sometimes when I stop for a traffic light, the bike wants to tip to the right. Since I'm using my right foot on the brake, I'll turn the handlebars to the right as I stop to force the bike to tip to the left, instead."

When I read that I thought WHAT COULD BE MORE OBVIOUS? Perhaps I am the only one on this forum who didn't get that idea about two days after the first MSF course. But I didn't, and have frequently had to poke down my right foot while I re-squeezed the front brake lever, and felt rather incompetent in this simplest of maneuvers.

If you are one of those who isn't quite sure which direction the bike will lean when you come to a stop - learn. The rest of you can have a good laugh at my expense. It IS pretty funny that I never thought of "counter-steering" in this light before.
 
Because every stop is uphill?

1 Because I was taught to always stop with my left foot down, in the BRC. They teach that for a reason.

2 Because when you do stop on a hill, you have to stop with your left foot down so that your right foot is on the rear brake. In a recent group ride, I saw 3 bikes tip over because their riders didn't do this correctly. If you haven't developed the habit of stopping and putting only your left foot down, then it's too late to learn this when you do stop on a hill.

3 You may not have any hills where you live, but you will encounter them in your travels...

Thanks, Doug.

Harry
 
1 Because I was taught to always stop with my left foot down...

Excuse me while I climb up on this soapbox.

Always? Really? When stopped sideways on an incline with the left side being the downhill side? Anyone who always does something the same way is someone guaranteed to do the wrong thing in some given circumstance. How about instead of following blind rules we teach people to use some common sense?

OK, I've climbed off the soapbox. I usually stop with my left foot down, depending upon the surrounding terrain.
 
Excuse me while I climb up on this soapbox.

Always? Really?

I guess you missed the part of me watching 3 bikes fall over on my last ride. In all cases, it was in a driveway. In the first, it was a turn into a driveway with a steep pitch. Because the rider did not stop with his foot on the rear brake, the bike rolled backwards and over it went. On the second two, it was again a driveway where there there were bikes trying to exit from a gravel drive and trying to merge with other bikes on the road. Two of them tipped over due to a lack of bike handling skill, which again was caused by not having right foot on rear brake. They were trying to turn right, there was a steep pitch to the driveway and there was gravel. No foot on rear brake = bike on ground.

Again, the MSF teaches stopping with your left foot down for a reason.

I don't recall ever having a situation where stopping with my right foot on the brake caused a problem. I've also got 36" inseam legs...

Harry
 
I guess you missed the part of me watching 3 bikes fall over on my last ride. In all cases, it was in a driveway. In the first, it was a turn into a driveway with a steep pitch. Because the rider did not stop with his foot on the rear brake, the bike rolled backwards and over it went. On the second two, it was again a driveway where there there were bikes trying to exit from a gravel drive and trying to merge with other bikes on the road. Two of them tipped over due to a lack of bike handling skill, which again was caused by not having right foot on rear brake. They were trying to turn right, there was a steep pitch to the driveway and there was gravel. No foot on rear brake = bike on ground.

All demonstrating various rider errors unrelated to left foot down.

Again, the MSF teaches stopping with your left foot down for a reason.

I taught MSF for 10 years. The MSF stopping curriculum demands rear brake use, and reasonably so because using the back brake is indeed steadying while stoppiing. But the requirement that the rider press the rear brake pedal while stopping means the curriculum was created for bikes without integrated brakes; on BMWs from this century, the front brake lever applies both brakes. I only use the rear brake pedal in very tight very slow speed turns.

I've also got 36" inseam legs...

That'd certainly help in situations where the surface slants off to the left. For me, with way shorter legs, if I want a foot down on a left-slanting surface, it'll be the right one. I find no trouble in manipulating the throttle and the front brake lever at the same time with my right hand.

I'm with Marc on this one: I also usually stop left-foot down...but not always.
 
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I taught MSF for 10 years. The MSF stopping curriculum demands rear brake use, and reasonably so because using the back brake is indeed steadying while stoppiing. But the requirement that the rider press the rear brake pedal while stopping means the curriculum was created for bikes without integrated brakes; on BMWs from this century, the front brake lever applies both brakes. I only use the rear brake pedal in very tight very slow speed turns.

And what percentage of bikes on the road are BMW's?

I suspect my front tires don't last as long as they should because I use mostly front brake myself.

But stopping and putting your left foot down is bike handling 101. And those bikes did tip over because of bike handling problems. I saw them go down. The first one rolled backwards because the rear brake wasn't used. And the other two, the ground did slope away to the right, which only supports what I'm saying.

We're not trying to split atoms here...it's bike handling 101...Saying that one time in a hundred you stop with your right foot down doesn't change anything.

Harry
 
Left foot to the ground first is not an absolute for each and every riding/stopping situation. But I have found it works for a very high percentage. By the way, I have a 30" inseam and ride a stock height 94RS, also been an MSF coach for 20+ years. Left foot down works for nearly all stops, but its also important to scan/search your stop and foot placement before you get there. That is more impotant than which foot goes down first, because it helps determine which foot/feet it should be. But also, use of the rear brake does wonders to stabilize the bike during and right up to the stop. I teach my students that the rear brake has as much to do with bike stability as braking.
 
Left foot to the ground first is not an absolute for each and every riding/stopping situation. But I have found it works for a very high percentage. By the way, I have a 30" inseam and ride a stock height 94RS, also been an MSF coach for 20+ years. Left foot down works for nearly all stops, but its also important to scan/search your stop and foot placement before you get there. That is more impotant than which foot goes down first, because it helps determine which foot/feet it should be. But also, use of the rear brake does wonders to stabilize the bike during and right up to the stop. I teach my students that the rear brake has as much to do with bike stability as braking.

I think the point I first quoted is most important - a slight push of the bars determines which way the bike leans when you come to a stop. If for some reason it is better to put your right foot down, push the bars to the left and come to almost a full stop before you do so. Complete the stop with the front brake as you put your right foot down. Maybe worth practicing both ways for the odd time putting your right foot down would be the better option.

I have never ridden I bike with "integrated" braking. My reading is that there is no problem with front braking also applying some rear braking. The opposite (rear braking applies some front brakes) is bad news for low speed maneuvers.

I know from personal experience that a little front brake at the end of a stop can lead to a tip-over.

Still think the tip quoted was a great one. A smooth, controlled stop - no drama - should be the norm. Try it, if you ever wonder which foot will meet the ground first.
 
Excuse me while I climb up on this soapbox.

Always? Really? When stopped sideways on an incline with the left side being the downhill side? Anyone who always does something the same way is someone guaranteed to do the wrong thing in some given circumstance. How about instead of following blind rules we teach people to use some common sense?

OK, I've climbed off the soapbox. I usually stop with my left foot down, depending upon the surrounding terrain.

To add to that, if you ride in England/Scotland/Ireland on an old, crowned country road, when you stop you might not want to depend on your left foot.
 
An earlier reply said he turns the bars slightly to cause the bike to lean in the direction of the downed foot. Got me to think about my technique, and I realized I actually have been doing this without really noticing it. But it is a great tip/technique to apply.

Another way to apply the technique may be: slightly more palm pressure against the handlebar grip to coincide with the foot going down to support the bike at a stop. So, when the left foot goes down, press slightly more against the left grip. If the right foot goes down, press slightly more against the right grip.
 
An earlier reply said he turns the bars slightly to cause the bike to lean in the direction of the downed foot. Got me to think about my technique, and I realized I actually have been doing this without really noticing it. But it is a great tip/technique to apply.

Another way to apply the technique may be: slightly more palm pressure against the handlebar grip to coincide with the foot going down to support the bike at a stop. So, when the left foot goes down, press slightly more against the left grip. If the right foot goes down, press slightly more against the right grip.

ANDYVH, I'm sure this is not the only thing you and other experienced riders do without giving it a moment's thought. Voni, can it be true you don't always know which way your bike will lean when you come to a stop - after over a million miles? Seriously doubt that! But thought that AKsuited's tip might benefit others if it benefitted me - a person with several years and miles under his belt - who NEVER had this very logical thought.

For you MSF coaches who read this, does it seem like a tip worth passing along to your students? Should it be part of the curriculum, including how to put your RIGHT foot down when that is what the road dictates under unusual circumstances?
 
One reason I am almost always coming to a stop, left foot down first is because I am a MSF coach. But also, over the years I have found it works really well and consistently for me, because it allows me to fine control the last few feet of the stop with the rear brake. This is especially helpful when carrying a passenger. for me anyway.

But I will use this tip with my MSF students when appropriate, to help them get more confident in those last few feet of a stop. I say, when appropriate, because for some newbies just getting the bike stopped and upright can be a challenge. Asking them to conciously think about a slight handlebar press during the stop is in some cases asking way too much.
 
I think this is a great tip. As far as putting your left foot down and right foot on the brake, I would say that is the best practice where it is practical There will always be exceptions due to terrain etc, but yes it is taught for a reason.

Once this rain quits I am definitely going to go out and see how this works in practice.
 
One reason I am almost always coming to a stop, left foot down first is because I am a MSF coach. But also, over the years I have found it works really well and consistently for me, because it allows me to fine control the last few feet of the stop with the rear brake. This is especially helpful when carrying a passenger. for me anyway.

But I will use this tip with my MSF students when appropriate, to help them get more confident in those last few feet of a stop. I say, when appropriate, because for some newbies just getting the bike stopped and upright can be a challenge. Asking them to conciously think about a slight handlebar press during the stop is in some cases asking way too much.

Your first paragraph brought to mind the time I stopped on a wet road at a stop sign, wife on the pillion seat, and DIDN'T get completely off the front brake. Yes, a tip over, nobody hurt, but damn embarrassing. Your point of using JUST the rear brake for the final feet of stop is very well taken - and I don't remember that being emphasized when I took the beginner course many years ago - but it should be. For me (and probably for beginners) modest use of the back brake, progressive use of the front brake, then easing off the front brake when nearly stopped with harder pressure on the back brake, is the way to go. (Of course, this is open to a lot of debate, especially if your bike has ABS, and I can see the teaching problems for even standard braking systems.)

I DO think teaching that slight left handlebar press at the end of a stop should make both you and your students more comfortable as they now KNOW the bike will lean to their left, which is what you both wanted. (They can learn stopping with the right foot down on their own when it is rarely required - because they understand that it is handlebar position, not leaning of the body, which determines which way the bike leans.)
 
Your point of using JUST the rear brake for the final feet of stop is very well taken - and I don't remember that being emphasized when I took the beginner course many years ago - but it should be.

I DO think teaching that slight left handlebar press at the end of a stop should make both you and your students more comfortable as they now KNOW the bike will lean to their left, which is what you both wanted. (They can learn stopping with the right foot down on their own when it is rarely required - because they understand that it is handlebar position, not leaning of the body, which determines which way the bike leans.)

read it again. Andy did not state "JUST the rear", I think that was your assumption. He only said that he continues to use the rear brake all the way to a full stop position.

As to teaching a handlebar turn at end of stop in the BRC? No, we teach stop with your bars straight. Students are typically at a point of any bar turn at all leads to bike leaning, and sometimes falling, in the direction of bar turn. So between that concern, and the "10 lbs manure into a 5 lb bag" issue.. no, I am absolutely not endorsing teaching any bar turn at a stop in the BRC.
 
+1 on that. Like I said, I'll use the tip when appropriate, and with limited students. In Wisconsin we get about half our BRC students with previous riding experience, and for them it may be a good tip. But not for newbies. We all know that most cycle control requires very minimal/subtle input to get accurate results. If you mention to a newbie to "slightly" turn the handlebar you're going to get a LOT more input than required.
 
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