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Warranty repair doesn't pay for everything...?

billy walker said:
It depends on how quickly those feet are used. It could have been a simple error or it could have been a tech who continually makes errors. I ALWAYS want to know about our mistakes. It's a quality check as to what is going on in the department. Imperfect of course but I want to know. I have a policy where we call 100% of our service customers to verify they were happy with the work.

This very day I called to check on a job and the customer explained to me he wasn't happy. He had purchased a used bike from a 3rd party and everything checked out fine (by us) including the battery. However due to a parts issue the bike sat here almost 2 weeks and was somewhat weak at time of pick-up. Turned out customer was unhappy he was unable to start bike at some point and this required a tow. At time of pick-up I had personally started the bike and discussed the fact it was turning over slower than I would have expected but it wasn't obviously an issue given the fact bike had sat for 2 weeks.

Long story short? Customer stated the tow cost him $85 and I told him to stop by when convenient and I would give him a $85 gift certificate. He was now a happy camper. As the bumper sticker states "Stuff Happens".
Click to expand...

Dear Billy
the bit I was referring to was
"but dont blow a single issue out of proportion"

That was what i was talking about, not sacking the tech or the dealer.
!!!!perspective!!!
all the very best regards
paul
 
pch123 said:
Dear Billy
the bit I was referring to was
"but dont blow a single issue out of proportion"

That was what i was talking about, not sacking the tech or the dealer.
!!!!perspective!!!
all the very best regards
paul
Click to expand...

Sorry if I'm missing your point but your statement - "My last service left a bike with 4 screws left over in the glove box i found when i got home. Found where they went and wont use that dealer again. No biggee ." - does sound like a single issue possibly being blown out of proportion. Not fair to you, not fair to other customers possibly if there is a serious tech issue, not fair to the other employees as the entire store has now been judged on the mistake of a single technician and not fair to the dealer principle since zero people made him aware of the problem. A dealer can care all they want but if a customer leaves due to an employee mistake not only are many people affected no one is even aware of what went wrong in the first place.

I think this has very much to do with "perspective". Nothing gets me more annoyed than a technician error that prompts the customer to make the decision to never come back. All this really accomplishes is a cycling of customers from store to store. We get our customers going to Store B because we "suck" and we get Store B's customers coming to us because Store B "sucks". Does that really make an sense?

Deciding to not use a given store again over a technician incident is in effect sacking the tech and the dealer. I do think perspective comes into play when doing this. I want the customer to have a trouble free experience 100% of the time although I know up front that is impossible to achieve. I want to know about the mistakes as they become a tool for decision making.

So from my "perspective" this is a "biggee". One of the bigger "biggee's" of all.

In the end it is ALL about perspective.
 
billy walker said:
Post #21 and #22 address this issue.

Unless your state seems to say something different the oil is going to be warranty. There may be a far fetched exception here. If the approved repair calls for laying the bike over to the point where the seal can be replaced without changing the oil. Other than that it's warranty. I think the tech was mistaken and there may be a possible misunderstanding of incidental damage.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. I asked the service mgr at my local BMW shop yesterday if consumables (oil, anti-freeze, fork oil) were included by BMW in their warranty service coverage, and he said "absolutely not, they just don't include it". He said that they will often provide some fluids as part of their required "shop supplies" charge, but generally speaking, it's on the customer's dime.
(I only asked that question because of this thread, and wanting to hear some "official" answer. I have no dog in this fight)
 
bikerfish1100 said:
That's interesting. I asked the service mgr at my local BMW shop yesterday if consumables (oil, anti-freeze, fork oil) were included by BMW in their warranty service coverage, and he said "absolutely not, they just don't include it". He said that they will often provide some fluids as part of their required "shop supplies" charge, but generally speaking, it's on the customer's dime.
Click to expand...

It's interesting to see instances where one or another party acts in a manner not permitted by law or contract, but is accepted by the other party. I imagine bikerfish's and Bill's experience here - dealer charging or saying he'll charge for consumables in a warranty repair - is not uncommon. Few of us want to argue with our dealer, and impair our relationship with them, over a relatively minor charge.
 
Last edited:
bikerfish1100 said:
That's interesting. I asked the service mgr at my local BMW shop yesterday if consumables (oil, anti-freeze, fork oil) were included by BMW in their warranty service coverage, and he said "absolutely not, they just don't include it". He said that they will often provide some fluids as part of their required "shop supplies" charge, but generally speaking, it's on the customer's dime.
(I only asked that question because of this thread, and wanting to hear some "official" answer. I have no dog in this fight)
Click to expand...

BMW warranty submittals contain a special field for oil and consumables. Someone posted a BMW Warranty Statement, one a few years old if I'm not mistaken, and it stated nothing about consumables. Therefore it's covered. Been over a year since I did BMW warranties but there is no statement disavowing coverage. We never charged customers for oil ASSUMING it was required to drop the oil in order to do the repair.
 
Last edited:
bikerfish1100 said:
That's interesting. I asked the service mgr at my local BMW shop yesterday if consumables (oil, anti-freeze, fork oil) were included by BMW in their warranty service coverage, and he said "absolutely not, they just don't include it". He said that they will often provide some fluids as part of their required "shop supplies" charge, but generally speaking, it's on the customer's dime.
(I only asked that question because of this thread, and wanting to hear some "official" answer. I have no dog in this fight)
Click to expand...


I don't think that that dealer has it right.

We need a warranty attorney :D
 
billy walker said:
If something of this nature impairs your relationship you deserve a different dealer.
Click to expand...

I agree. But "deserve" doesn't mean there's actually another dealer within the distance you're willing to ride, and some people (including BMW riders) aren't willing to stand up for themselves. It's not a perfect world.
 
sloride said:
I don't think that that dealer has it right.

We need a warranty attorney :D
Click to expand...

That was not his belief, that was his determination, based on experience. He told me that anytime he has put in for "consumables" on a warranty order, they were denied. He's been with this dealer for several years.

Personally, I think they should cover that cost if the warrantied failure forces new fluids to be needed. However, as a $ issue, it's not really big bucks, so it's not really worth getting too worked up over. jmho.
 
The end. For now.

OK, I got the 2012 warranty booklet which is now 32 pages but essentially says the same thing as the 2007 warranty card I posted earlier. I also spoke with Adam the service advisor of BMW of Denver and asked him about my situation. He said it was true that BMW does not reimburse the dealer for fluids on warranty work, but they typically do not charge the customer anyway for the sake of goodwill. That's nice but you know, in thinking about it I realized that this really does not matter to me when you get down to the warranty itself. The warranty says it gives me specific legal rights, which is all I am interested in here. Whatever arrangement the dealer has with BMW has nothing to do with me on this issue.

So the bottom line is that I have a warranty contract that came with a motorcycle purchased from BMW NA through a local dealer. The warranty was part of the sale, and we are both bound by its terms. The warranty states that the dealer will correct any defect in materials or workmanship for the warranty period without charge for parts or labor. While certain parts are not included in the warranty. there is no exclusion for consumables. It may be BMW?s policy not to reimburse dealers for the cost of oil or other consumable items, but this is a matter between the dealer and BMW and has no bearing on my warranty rights which state that I am to receive the warranty service at no cost for parts or labor. The oil they charged me for is a part (it has a part number) that was necessary for the repair. Therefore I believe the dealer has violated the terms of the warranty by charging me for this part when he performed the warranty repair.

So I wrote a letter stating all of this and we'll see where it goes. The only other thing of note that came out of reading the warranty is all of the items that are not included in any warranty: Brake pads and rotors, ball joints, control cables, drive chains, belts, sprockets, heated hand grips....etc. If the wrong item went bad (like a ball joint in the front suspension) you could be sol for a lotta cash. It is a good idea to read this stuff, there are a few surprises in there, some of which may be avoidable.
 
ajaxthegreater said:
OK, I got the 2012 warranty booklet which is now 32 pages but essentially says the same thing as the 2007 warranty card I posted earlier. I also spoke with Adam the service advisor of BMW of Denver and asked him about my situation. He said it was true that BMW does not reimburse the dealer for fluids on warranty work, but they typically do not charge the customer anyway for the sake of goodwill. That's nice but you know, in thinking about it I realized that this really does not matter to me when you get down to the warranty itself. The warranty says it gives me specific legal rights, which is all I am interested in here. Whatever arrangement the dealer has with BMW has nothing to do with me on this issue.

So the bottom line is that I have a warranty contract that came with a motorcycle purchased from BMW NA through a local dealer. The warranty was part of the sale, and we are both bound by its terms. The warranty states that the dealer will correct any defect in materials or workmanship for the warranty period without charge for parts or labor. While certain parts are not included in the warranty. there is no exclusion for consumables. It may be BMW?s policy not to reimburse dealers for the cost of oil or other consumable items, but this is a matter between the dealer and BMW and has no bearing on my warranty rights which state that I am to receive the warranty service at no cost for parts or labor. The oil they charged me for is a part (it has a part number) that was necessary for the repair. Therefore I believe the dealer has violated the terms of the warranty by charging me for this part when he performed the warranty repair.

So I wrote a letter stating all of this and we'll see where it goes. The only other thing of note that came out of reading the warranty is all of the items that are not included in any warranty: Brake pads and rotors, ball joints, control cables, drive chains, belts, sprockets, heated hand grips....etc. If the wrong item went bad (like a ball joint in the front suspension) you could be sol for a lotta cash. It is a good idea to read this stuff, there are a few surprises in there, some of which may be avoidable.
Click to expand...

Laws are obviously different in USA then down here. You stated you "motorcycle purchased from BMW NA through a local dealer ". Here you purchased a bike from a dealer not BMW NA. The warranty offered is the key but the contract is between you and the dealer ( or a dealer). your argument technically is with the dealer.
Hope you sort it out to your satisfaction . Little things like this detract from overall enjoyment.
best regards
Paul
 
bikerfish1100 said:
That was not his belief, that was his determination, based on experience. He told me that anytime he has put in for "consumables" on a warranty order, they were denied. He's been with this dealer for several years.

Personally, I think they should cover that cost if the warrantied failure forces new fluids to be needed. However, as a $ issue, it's not really big bucks, so it's not really worth getting too worked up over. jmho.
Click to expand...
While I realize this is fully a motorcycle forum , we are talking about BMW(& their warranty practices) & if you consider what it cost to replenish the coolant in a late model BMW car, it is not a trivial amount as the fluid is truly "liquid gold"! Now, back to bikes.:)
 
pch123 said:
Laws are obviously different in USA then down here. You stated you "motorcycle purchased from BMW NA through a local dealer ". Here you purchased a bike from a dealer not BMW NA. The warranty offered is the key but the contract is between you and the dealer ( or a dealer). your argument technically is with the dealer.
Hope you sort it out to your satisfaction . Little things like this detract from overall enjoyment.
best regards
Paul
Click to expand...

I agree, the warranty statement I have is issued by BMW NA and it says in the first sentence of the warranty that "BMW of North America, LLC (BMW NA) warrants...". It specifies later that to obtain warranty service you need to go to an authorized dealer, and the dealer performs the warranty services. I did purchase the bike from a dealer but the warranty promise is from the manufacturer, which makes them hard to distinguish between. I think of the dealer as a distributor, an agent for BMW NA. In any case that does not matter as far as my argument which is that the warranty is what I am going by and any other agreements between BMW and the dealer do not affect the existing warranty agreement between BMW NA, its authorized dealer agents and me. It does not matter to the warranty whether or how much BMW reimburses the dealer for warranty services, that's a a red herring. BMW can't issue you a warranty and then have the dealer undermine its terms.

No worries, I enjoy all my bikes regardless, it doesn't affect that at all for me. Like they say in NJ, nothing personal, it's just business.
 
ajaxthegreater said:
............ It does not matter to the warranty whether or how much BMW reimburses the dealer for warranty services, that's a a red herring. BMW can't issue you a warranty and then have the dealer undermine its terms.

.......
Click to expand...

That is true. BMW NA requires BMW dealers to follow terms of the warranty. Same terms any other OEM has however.
 
Vindicated

Got a call from Justin, the Service Manager at Foothills BMW today saying the tech had done a "poor job of communicating" with me and that they were sending me a check for the cost of the oil change. He didn't make any admissions beyond that and I was not in a probing mood, so I just accepted what he said. Case closed.

So if you have had a warranty repair recently and been charged for consumables or other parts necessary to perform the repair I would suggest you try to recover your costs. The vehicle warranty says warranty repairs are to be made without charge for labor or parts. Most if not all fluids have part numbers, so I believe that makes them parts.

I'd be happy to share my letter if you send me a private message. Thanks all.
 
Warranty rules

Unfortunately, this issue is all too common in all vehicle warranties. I suspect the dealer was not reimbursed too much to change out a sight glass, as opposed to a full engine or transmission overhaul, that's why they did not just waive the oil fee.

Also, the Governor (or at least his department of revenue) get's some of the blame. In Colorado, and in many other states, if the dealer does not "sell" consumables, then the dealer has to pay use tax on his cost for those items because the inventory exemption from sales tax only applies to items the dealer ultimately sells to his customer.

I recently went through a frustrating experience with my new Triumph Bonneville when the transmission failed at under 2000 miles in the middle of no where. I had to rent a U-haul trailer, an F-150 to tow it, motel costs because it failed after hours and gas to travel the 450 miles to a dealer. The ultimate problem was the manufacturer's employee never installed the clip that holds the gears on the shaft and the gears migrated and the end one fell off. While I got a new transmission, Triumph will not reimburse me for my substantial out of pockets despite the fact this was pure negligence, not really a material failure.

$35 seems like a helluva deal to me. I'm out over 10 times that number.
 
pch123 said:
Here you purchased a bike from a dealer not BMW NA. The warranty offered is the key but the contract is between you and the dealer ( or a dealer). your argument technically is with the dealer.
.
best regards
Paul
Click to expand...

Technically that would be very difficult to do in any country. While the dealer is the direct contact to the customer and is responsible for filing a warranty claim, the warranty of the vehicle is usually provided by the manufacturer. The main reason is reimbursement. Ultimately, in most cases, the cost of replacing a part under warranty is absorbed by the manufacturer of the part. A dealer would have absolutely no access to this supplier and administering it would be a nightmare.

The wording in the US warranty is there to ensure that BMW has the possibility to refuse warranty work on a "grey import", a bike that was not officially brought into the country by BMW NA. Reason behind this is, that the manufacturer wants to ensure that the vehicle's original design was made for use in the specific environment. This is all semantics, mind you. But the people who put these agreements together and in place are lawyers, not enthusiasts.
 
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