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DOT, Snell, Mattel?

GKman

New member
As far as impact protection is concerned, I'm curious about how much can really be done by manufacturers with that 1" of helmet between my head and and the pavement, brick wall or Humvee bumper. The extra hundreds can add a little comfort, convenience and I can donate my vig in financing a team at Daytona but what am I getting in protection? A helmet is a really good thing to skid down the road on and at non-race speed I would expect anything but a toy to survive that. My Levi'ed knees and bare elbows did as a kid. Beyond that I really wouldn't expect to survive a helmet breaking crash although it sometime happens. Them's the breaks.

Does anybody really KNOW of anything in that inch that results in a significant difference?
 
The extra money pays mostly for less weight, styling, comfort, and paint. Paint alone can add an extra $100 to the price. From a pure head protection point of view that $30 helmet that honestly meets FVMSS 218 may be no worse than the 1200 carbon fiber helmet with integrated communications. Look at the sharp link that Kurt posted. Five star rated helmets vary in price from 59 to 499 pounds.
 
I was going to post some links, but decided against it. Back in 2005, Motorcyclist magazine did a rather extensive article on standards and helmet testing. One way to get a bunch of links with this info is to use Google and search on "motorcyclist magazine helmet test article". You'll get the article, responses to the article, hits in forums, etc.

As for me personally, some of my criteria in choosing a helmet is as follows:

- Known name brand
- Comfortable fit
- Replacement parts, like face shields available
- Full face design, possibly including flipups

Any helmet that has those simple criteria will conform to one, if not multiple, standards. Right now, I wear an HJC helmet. It was purchased back in 2007 after I did a circus act that resulted in my head inside my Nolan hitting the ground. I thought it would be a temporary, "fill in" helmet. 6 years later, I still have it, and now it needs to be replaced. I pay more attention to fit, finish, comfort and functionality that I do to the standard stickers the helmet will adhere to. For the record, I'm looking at purchasing a Shoei Qwest. I think it should provide all the protection that I could need. After all, I am riding a motorcycle, which has risks whether you or wearing the best helmet in the world or not.
 
Choosing a white or other highly visible color helmet serves to help you be spotted by other motorists, always a good thing.

Harry
 
I have always bought helmets based on fit. All the certificates and ratings don't mean a thing if its so unconfortable that I wont wear it.

That said, I have a head the shape of a lumpy football. The nice term is 'long oval'. The only brand that made any long oval that would fit me is Arai, and at 500-600 bucka a pop, that can get expensive. Until recently! By accident I discoveed the brand Z1R, made by HJC I believe. Long oval shape, quality fit and finish, all the 'extras' (different size cheek pads, removable/washable liner...) all for well under 200 bucks.

On a side note, I wear my helmet to protect my noggin from the 'secondary' impacts, like when you start to tumble after that slide down the pavement.
 
Snell has this piece that explains tries to explain the difference between DOT Standards testing and the Snell testing system.

http://www.smf.org/docs/articles/dot
and
http://www.smf.org/docs/articles/mcomp2

I have not done any current research into the EU standard process in several years. At one point they were researching the development of a standard that looked at a helmet?s ability to withstand an initial impact like Snell and DOT and was to go on to examine second impact effects. The EU research may come more closely to answering your question. All of the standards look at a primary impact. The EU did some data studies that appeared to indicate that secondary impact failures were the main safety concern.

For the street, as was pointed out earlier, a helmet must meet DOT standards to be legal for street use. Snell standard alone is not street legal. Once your legal the proper fit and comfort are the next considerations.
 
I don't KNOW anything for sure, but I understand that the hard outer surface of the helmet helps to prevent intrusion by things you hit on the way by, while the expanded foam liner allows your skull to decelerate in a more or less controlled manner after the impact. How your brain decelerates within the skull is another matter. Obviously, a bare head hitting the pavement does not enjoy even these benefits so I would always wear a helmet even if I wasn't required by law to do so.
It's a fallacy perpetrated and perpetuated by unscrupulous liability lawyers (there's a redundancy if ever I saw one) that a helmet is designed to save your life in an accident. Only in a court of law do the laws of physics not apply, apparently.
Cheers,
Tony
 
...
It's a fallacy perpetrated and perpetuated by unscrupulous liability lawyers (there's a redundancy if ever I saw one) that a helmet is designed to save your life in an accident. Only in a court of law do the laws of physics not apply, apparently.
Cheers,
Tony

Could you elaborate on this statement ?
 
Any helmet sold (legally) in the US must meet the DOT standards. If it also meets the somewhat different Snell standard, it still must meet DOT. Note that helmet manufacturers self-report on their helmets meeting DOT while the Snell Foundation actually tests the helmets themselves.

And keep in mind while a helmet might MEET the given standard, it might also EXCEED the standard by a significant margin. A $50 Screamin' Moron Sturgis Special might be self-reported as DOT compliant, but I'd like to think my expensive Arai exceeds the DOT and Snell standards. (I also like to believe in the tooth fairy):blush

pete
 
I don't KNOW anything for sure, but I understand that the hard outer surface of the helmet helps to prevent intrusion by things you hit on the way by, while the expanded foam liner allows your skull to decelerate in a more or less controlled manner after the impact.

The hard outer shell also serves to diffuse the force of impact over a larger area thereby reducing the peak load transferred to a specific point on the skull.
 
I know it saved my life once, I got a Shoei helmet that had the Snell II rating as a gift from my brother years ago, and when I became a speed bump for the 83 year old lady in a Town car it saved my life. I was doing 45 on my Harley with straight pipes on A1A in Cocoa Bch and she decided to pull out in front of me, this is summer of 98', had jeans, boots, leather jacket, leather gloves and of course the Shoei full facial helmet. The helmet saved my life, walked away. Looking at my helmet (still have it as a reminder only, once it bounced it no longer can provide the safety level as new) top, side and chin areas were all damaged, EMTs who looked me over stated that if I didn't have it on I would have been dead. The Shoei helmet that was given to me by my brother was an extra one given to him by Shoei as he was Rothmans Honda racing team manager at that time, Shoei would give them new helmets on a regular basis, sponsor ship, publicity. The Snell (my opinion) is the better. As a side note, the leathers saved my skin, literally!:burnout
 
Structural or mechanical engineer?

The hard outer shell also serves to diffuse the force of impact over a larger area thereby reducing the peak load transferred to a specific point on the skull.

You sound like one...or the other. Am I close?
 
When (a few years back) I decided to go for a "higher value", (ie: IN MY OWN MIND) better protective helmet, I took a look at what the pro level, and other racers were wearing. I decided to buy an Arai helmet. Good enough for them, good enough for me. This was after a not-so-bad crash in which I flew over the car I'd broadsided, and landed safely on my head while wearing my Davida "Pudding Bowl" helmet. Also after my buying a Nolan "flipper" helmet, which was horribly ill-fitting on me. After my experience at The Service Pavilion, http://www.theservicepavilion.com/ where they meticulously fitted my helmet to MY head, I was convinced I'd done the right thing. Never before had I had any helmet actually FIT.
I agree that lots of money may go into fit & finish. However, Arai is a smaller company, family owned & operated. (according to the ON article a few years back) Probably by now, you can get a comparable lid for less... BUT a company like Arai is exactly the kind of operation I'd choose to support here at home, so throwing them a few extra bucks doesn't bother me.

To add a side note about protection...

I work in the Entertainment Industry. We do things that combine heavy industrial techniques & equipment with heavy construction type material and sensibilities. Our methods defy categorization and understanding, in many ways. When I buy tools or gear, I look for the highest levels of certification, typically ANSI rated & OSHA certified stuff ( I think((?)) that OSHA does NOT "rate" equipment but certifies, or recommends it, based on outside ratings?) . Like DOT and SNELL certs, ratings, & classification, these are the go-to standards for safety, strength, and protection. If a helmet carries BOTH DOT AND SNELL certifications, this means it meets certain standards, which are set thru rigorous testing, both nationally, and internationally (IF I'm not mistaken on this point). I'll take that as my own standard, too- thanks very much.

ALSO-
I've heard various arguments about helmet weight & forces generated in a crash, V neck injuries resulting from whiplash etc. In my mind, if there's any argument FOR a lighter helmet -and if you look, helmet weight differences from "light" to "heavy" aren't grand- this is it.
SO even tho there is absolutely zero question that helmets offer protection enough to save lives... Can anyone elaborate on G-forces, whiplash affects, or neck injuries?
 
Take a hard look at the game of FB and the exercises done to exercise & strengthen the neck muscles & thus avoid injury. The weight of the helmet alone(in USA FB) takes a toll on the neck , if not strong. Wind pressure can cause neck soreness for MC riders. If a rider takes a tumble off a MC, best to have muscle tone in all the right places to avoid more serious injury. That's why aggressively serious off road riding is for those who are fit.
 
thumbs up for 883815's answer

As far as impact protection is concerned, I'm curious about how much can really be done by manufacturers with that 1" of helmet between my head and and the pavement, brick wall or Humvee bumper. The extra hundreds can add a little comfort, convenience and I can donate my vig in financing a team at Daytona but what am I getting in protection? A helmet is a really good thing to skid down the road on and at non-race speed I would expect anything but a toy to survive that. My Levi'ed knees and bare elbows did as a kid. Beyond that I really wouldn't expect to survive a helmet breaking crash although it sometime happens. Them's the breaks.

Does anybody really KNOW of anything in that inch that results in a significant difference?


[B said:
marchyman;883815][/B]The extra money pays mostly for less weight, styling, comfort, and paint. Paint alone can add an extra $100 to the price. From a pure head protection point of view that $30 helmet that honestly meets FVMSS 218 may be no worse than the 1200 carbon fiber helmet with integrated communications. Look at the sharp link that Kurt posted. Five star rated helmets vary in price from 59 to 499 pounds.

I think marchyman has the correct answer here but for sure it's better to have an inch than none at all....

DW
 
I guess to me the OP question is kind of confusing. Yes there are multiple standards, DOT, Snell and European, and of those three any one will protect your skull from most impact dangers, and protect your brain (the FAR more important helmet function) from most G-loads from impacts. NO helmet of any standard is a 100% garauntee for survival. But of the three most common standards, they'll each do the job of protecting your brain from the common crashes motorcycles have endured for the past 30+ years.

In that record, it seems to me that yes, there IS plenty of known data about what current helmets can do and protect.
 
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