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Too bad BMW does want to sell cop motorcycles........

motorman587 said:
Again I been on cop motorcycle for 16years and rode BMW 10 years. I know how to ride a BMW. There is quote that proves my point. BMW is a dry clutch, well proven for long life.........with that said and all that other stuff is blah. It is real simple to have your BMW clutch last forever. "Do not use your rear brake". Period. Simple.....................but because this is an open forum on a public web site, hammer away, but do use the rear brake. :)
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Your comments have no basis in reality I'm sorry to say. You obviously have been successful with your own clutch. The reality is this is a known issue in the world of police motorcycles. Sorry, I only have experience in selling and servicing them.
 
ponch1 said:
I prefer a wet clutch, even after owning an RT for 2 plus years.
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I personnaly don't care wet or dry. To me what is more important is how much to repair and sadly BMW loses there. The clutch components may not be cheap but I can deal with that. It's the level of labor that bothers me. Many folks struggle with that from a dollar point of view and of course most folks are not able to do it on their own. Then there's the side effect of was everything reassembled correctly by the tech. Given the level of teardown the risk of errors increases as well. Being in the industry for so many years and no matter how good the tech I never feel truly comfortable when something of that nature is tore apart to such a degree. And, I imagine many owners feel the same way.

But yet I love RT's... can you explain that?
 
billy walker said:
Your comments have no basis in reality I'm sorry to say. You obviously have been successful with your own clutch. The reality is this is a known issue in the world of police motorcycles. Sorry, I only have experience in selling and servicing them.
Click to expand...

And that is why we train with no brake exercise to keep the cost down either wet or dry.
 
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billy walker said:
The California Highway Patrol is the largest user of police motorcycles in the United States (I think). They actually test and report on police motorcycles in written format every few years and the document will review BMW, Harley, Honda, and Kawasaki police units. If I recall they actually state that all the units they test are acceptable but if you compare the test results by segment, braking, acceleration, etc., you will find that BMW does exceptionally well in all areas.

There seems to be two primary areas of complaints with the BMW's. One is the fact they are obviously German and many agencies don't get off on this fact; they want that Made in the USA feeling. They seem to be unaware of foreign content percentages. The second is cost. H-D parts are surprisingly inexpensive sometimes especially when used in comparison with BMW. Many police departments also have the skill sets to maintain H-D in-house. This seems to not be true with BMW in general.

A BMW can clearly outrun, out stop and out handle a Harley. There are many municipalities that seem to be oblivious to that fact. Many times the powers that be in those municipalities simply know nothing to speak of about a motorcycle. But you can bet your last dollar on one fact, all the decision-making individuals within any community knows Harley makes police motorcycles and "their" made in the USA. Therefore it is patriotic to buy H-D and bad to buy BMW. I don't believe the officer's safety is taken into consideration and there is no comparison between the two brands. The powers that be simply are not aware of the substantial differences.
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Billy, I couldn't agree more. Exactly my experience with police departments, and also knowledge of the facts that I haven't personally experienced. (As related to me by both BMW and H-D hqs executives)
Everyone must be having problems with the BMW clutches or else BMW wouldn't warranty 1 clutch job for their police motors. I sense departments are balking. My RT-P had it's clutch replaced at only 30K miles just prior to being auctioned off, and I have the repair order and receipts- BMW dealer billed the police dept $4100 for the job!
 
ClassicVW said:
Billy, I couldn't agree more. Exactly my experience with police departments, and also knowledge of the facts that I haven't personally experienced. (As related to me by both BMW and H-D hqs executives)
Everyone must be having problems with the BMW clutches or else BMW wouldn't warranty 1 clutch job for their police motors. I sense departments are balking. My RT-P had it's clutch replaced at only 30K miles just prior to being auctioned off, and I have the repair order and receipts- BMW dealer billed the police dept $4100 for the job!
Click to expand...

The folks that are wasting the clutch are in the minority but sadly the numbers are high enough to cause concern. As stated previously I'm a bit surprised that the motor division seems to attract people with zero clutch experience and those folks are certain to waste the clutch as a general rule.
 
I think the biggest hurdle of Harley vs BMW is ergonomics. Its just too hard for most cops to get their leg up over the seat of a BMW. The low seat height of a Harley is a blessing for those with a large gut.
 
Regarding the wheels - Pretty well known among us... this was even discussed in our magazine a while back. When the 1100s came out, the wheels were (allegedly) designed as an integral part of the crash-absorption system. So many of them were being heavily dinged by very minor obstacles that for a short time, BMW actually replaced some under warranty. Then the number of claims quickly blossomed and they stopped replacing them. Some were probably damaged by running too low on the tire pressures. But even with a slight redesign, and continuing through the 1150s, they ding easily, and will even get noticeably bent by a careless tire change.

Most of the departments around here use RTPs now, but there are still some Harleys and many Hondas. I know of one HD still in use that has undergone a few mods to make it a bit quicker...
 
Pauls1150 said:
But even with a slight redesign, and continuing through the 1150s, they ding easily, and will even get noticeably bent by a careless tire change.
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The R1200 wheels don't seem to have the same issue as the earlier wheels. It's enough of a non-issue that I (and many others) took their GS with alloy wheels on dirt and rock strewn roads with little concern. OK, a little concern. I'd not air down as much as the guys with wire wheels. Since the hexheads have been around for about 8 years and this topic is about cops buying current motorcycles any discussion of soft wheels is a bit disingenuous.
And wearing my fortune teller hat I can see it already... a discussion in 2020 about the dry clutch issues of the R series bikes even though there have been none made that way for 5 or 6 years. :deal
 
From what I've been told by some CHP officers I know, their recent switch to Harleys was almost entirely financial. BMW cuts them no breaks in the price and outfitting a state agency with $25k+ bikes is not good for the budget. He wasn't able to tell me what they are getting the Harleys for, but he said it was somewhere just barely above dealer cost, which is dramatically cheaper than the BMWs. While the BMW clutches are a hassle to repair, that cost is nowhere near the fleet cost of buying new vehicles. Considering I've seen CHP 1150s still in service with 150k on them, they are in need of new bikes.
 
natrab said:
From what I've been told by some CHP officers I know, their recent switch to Harleys was almost entirely financial. BMW cuts them no breaks in the price and outfitting a state agency with $25k+ bikes is not good for the budget. He wasn't able to tell me what they are getting the Harleys for, but he said it was somewhere just barely above dealer cost, which is dramatically cheaper than the BMWs. While the BMW clutches are a hassle to repair, that cost is nowhere near the fleet cost of buying new vehicles. Considering I've seen CHP 1150s still in service with 150k on them, they are in need of new bikes.
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I thought CHP went back to BMWs??? I heard it wasn"t about the cost it was about the Governor who wanted them riding Harley's. I remember when I wanted to switch to BMW, there were a few other motor officers, they made us go through all these testing, meetings, and bid crap, but when a new ranking officer wanted Harley, he just snapped his finger, don't look at the data that I had collect over 10 years to show that BMW where cheaper to operate.
 
natrab said:
From what I've been told by some CHP officers I know, their recent switch to Harleys was almost entirely financial. .
Click to expand...

That is what it all boils down to. The operating costs for a BMW is just too high. The PDs have the same problem all BMW riders have. Too few dealers and too high prices for parts and service. The few municipalities that use BMWs have higher budgets and/or manage to find ways to run the bikes at lower costs.
 
Kent Niederhofer said:
I can't find the full report performed by the Michigan State Police when their contract with Harley-Davidson expired and they evaluated the latest offerings from top manufacturers. Here's an article that reports some of their findings and suffice it to say they are rolling on brand new R1200RTs: http://www.policemag.com/blog/vehic...ice-release-2013-motorcycle-test-results.aspx.

Kent
Click to expand...

I believe I found the complete report here. http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/VehicleTestBook2013-sm_406312_7.pdf

Motorcycle results start on page 88.
 
Blacque Jacque Shellacque said:
I think the biggest hurdle of Harley vs BMW is ergonomics. Its just too hard for most cops to get their leg up over the seat of a BMW. The low seat height of a Harley is a blessing for those with a large gut.
Click to expand...

It's also a problem for folks with short inseams. The police departments no longer have a minimum height requirement like they once did. When my old R1200CLC dies, I will probably have to leave BMW because they don't sell anything with a seat height I am comfortable with.
 
They do sell lowered RT's now. I sat on one in the dealer. It felt weird compared to my regular RT, but I could sure flat foot it!
 
EMSimon said:
That is what it all boils down to. The operating costs for a BMW is just too high. The PDs have the same problem all BMW riders have. Too few dealers and too high prices for parts and service. The few municipalities that use BMWs have higher budgets and/or manage to find ways to run the bikes at lower costs.
Click to expand...

I do not see how that is true. BMW run double on maintenance, 6000 miles vs. 2500 service. And if you have a good fleet manager they can negate a contact with either maintenance included, lower hourly rate, and percent cap on parts. We had an awesome partnership with our BMWs and dealership. RIP Dusty Miller...............
 
motorman587 said:
I do not see how that is true. BMW run double on maintenance, 6000 miles vs. 2500 service. And if you have a good fleet manager they can negate a contact with either maintenance included, lower hourly rate, and percent cap on parts. We had an awesome partnership with our BMWs and dealership. RIP Dusty Miller...............
Click to expand...

May be for the HD, but there's Honda and Kawasaki too and now Victory. Lots of choices out there for the motorcop.
 
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