How to improve the MOA forum.

BC1100S said:

Its the second intermission and the refs are restating the rules to the contestants.

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You hockey fans...........second intermission?. It reminds me of Tolkien's Hobbits and their second breakfast.

In my circumstance, it was the Service Manager, Kent, at Schlossmann's BMW of Milwaukee, that went to bat for me. My '08 R1200GS blew the Rear ESA shock seals, out of warranty, both in years and mileage. This happened on a trip south and I had the shock replaced at Baton Rouge BMW. Three months later, when having service at Schlossmannn's, Kent asked for the repair paperwork and said he would see if he could get anything from BMW. In the end, BMW gave me a 70% rebate on the repair bill of ~$2200. Also, I am the 2nd owner of the R1200GS, so you know where I'll be buying my next moto and having the current one serviced....

36654 said:

You hockey fans...........second intermission?. It reminds me of Tolkien's Hobbits and their second breakfast.

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It killed me that Pittsburgh went down in 4. I'm pulling for Chicago now. Sorry for the thread de-rail!

rjzinc said:

In my circumstance, it was the Service Manager, Kent, at Schlossmann's BMW of Milwaukee, that went to bat for me. My '08 R1200GS blew the Rear ESA shock seals, out of warranty, both in years and mileage. This happened on a trip south and I had the shock replaced at Baton Rouge BMW. Three months later, when having service at Schlossmannn's, Kent asked for the repair paperwork and said he would see if he could get anything from BMW. In the end, BMW gave me a 70% rebate on the repair bill of ~$2200. Also, I am the 2nd owner of the R1200GS, so you know where I'll be buying my next moto and having the current one serviced....

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Sounds like they went above and beyond for you. This repair worked out for you well. Just goes to show nothing is cast in stone.

BC1100S said:

Sorry for the thread de-rail!

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It was an attempted mercy killing........

Several persons here have been having a serious conversation that contained various worthy points of view(some I agreed with , others not so much & some with no bearing on the thread but OK too) while a few seem to revile in being members of the "above the subject" crowd, seeing this as a nonsensical discussion that they are (I wonder why?) willing to take the time to read but unwilling to offer credibility too the comments of others. Even my "curmugeonly" self finds it demeaning to do so.
This IS a "forum" after all, -like's been said , if it doesn't suit you, walk away from the mouse...

Absolutely not interested in this organization becoming an advocacy group.

Let me say, I have suffered the mechanical pitfalls of BMW ownership and even left the fold for 5 years after being discouraged with yet another BMW. Multiple spline eating episodes, multiple rear drive failures, transmission failure, rear main failure, slave cylinder failures and a number of nagging little failures have been a part of my BMW ownership.

Would I like to see a better product produced by BMW, of course! I just don't feel this organization is the proper vehicle to accomplish that task.

I dealt with each setback on each bike quickly with my local dealer or on my own and felt I was adequately compensated, partly because I did not have any unrealistic expectations of BMW fixing stuff out of the warranty period.

rad said:

Absolutely not interested in this organization becoming an advocacy group.

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Agreed 100%.

I spoke with Greg Feeler Sunday.

Let's keep my bike and situation out of the conversation and just focus on the forum.

Greg was kind enough to PM me his cell number so I called him on Sunday. Greg is a very nice man and is a very capable President of the BMW MOA. Thanks Greg for devoting your time and energy to the MOA. I enjoyed talking to him and he made some very valid points concern BMW's and their tendency to not want to publicly admit fault in most circumstance. But that how "backdoor channel" diplomacy can be a better way to get the problems solved and a way for BMW NA to "save face". The only problem is that 95% of the members do not know how to access the "backdoor channel" so they are stuck with talking to the 1-800 customer service reps and that is as far up the corporate ladder that they every get.

I agree with Greg entirely on this matter and most of what we discussed. Several members have suggested recently that having a tab on the home page with contact information for BMW NA would be very helpful and I agree.

If we have a tab with the Regional Service Reps name, number and email that would suffice for most of the situations. I have already posted Anthony Cavanaugh's
(pre-litigation and customer buy-back manager) email and direct line.

Let's work together to figure out a way to help members when they have a problem and not just drink the BMW Kool Aid. I also have a f650gs single that I have never had a bit of problem with so I am not anti BMW, but I am anti bad customer relations.

Take a look at David Telfer's K1600 and it blowing smoke like a mosquito sprayer. David lives in Australia where they do not have lemon laws. This is a post from he made concerning is bike. Check out his link on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHDpj0LrVuM David would love to have a forum like ours to share ideas and find solutions to problems we have.

David posted this about his bike "BMW says it has 3 cracked pistons around oil ring area. I am still waiting on new short motor to be shipped out from Germany. They cannot expained why it has happened. They are NOT UNSTOPPABLE. Is it unreasonable to expect a loan bike??? Been back to the dealers 3 times now and over 11 weeks. I expect an extension on warranty and I guess that will be another battle with BMW. I will have 3 to 4 months without a bike that I have been paying registration and insurance on and the warranty period running out"

I bet David would love to know how to get in touch with someone with BMW that can solve this problem.

Defects and Lemon Bikes happen, no big deal. But when the manufacture stonewalls the customer then it is a big deal.

Thanks Randy

rad said:

Absolutely not interested in this organization becoming an advocacy group.

..............

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To my knowledge no one at any time has stated they want to turn the group into an advocacy group. The discussion is about having someone who will act as an advocate without getting involved in the various standard every day threads. This would allow people with valid issues to have support through others conducting a mail-in campaign to NA. Please note I am stating valid issues that people need help on; serious blunders by BMW. You would think that people in a group of this nature would be willing to help others that have serious issues that BMW refuses to recognize. I am surprised by some of the responses and the apparent refusal to help others even in a minimal manner. Please stop thinking so much about yourself and realize others just may need your help. We don't need to upset the applecart here. Just employ a mechanism where concern and assistance is provided to others in a professional manner without all these issues coming up on the forum threads daily. A segregated area where if you prefer not to help you don't even know the need exists. Think outside the box. You do not need to alter the premise of the club and disrupt your lives.

espressoforyou said:

.............

David posted this about his bike "BMW says it has 3 cracked pistons around oil ring area. I am still waiting on new short motor to be shipped out from Germany. They cannot expained why it has happened. They are NOT UNSTOPPABLE. Is it unreasonable to expect a loan bike??? Been back to the dealers 3 times now and over 11 weeks. I expect an extension on warranty and I guess that will be another battle with BMW. I will have 3 to 4 months without a bike that I have been paying registration and insurance on and the warranty period running out"...............

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There are good hearted dealers that have been known to pick-up those bills when the need and the justification arises. I know because I have been involved personally doing just that for customers. I've handed out replacement machines when the OEM refused to do so within a reasonable time frame. The reason we have lemon laws is because you have OEM's who sometimes don't want to do what is "right".

Billy, I wish you, Paul Glaves and Greg Feeler would have a brainstorming session

Several of the members posts are always well thought and and very well written(I am not in that group).

Paul Glaves has been a big help with my situation but more importantly he always post intelligent and positive comments.

The same goes with Billy Walker and Greg Feeler.

I wish they would brain storm by email and phone and come up with the best solution possible for the forum and the members.

Thanks to all three of you.

Someone who will act as an advocate.

"The discussion is about having someone who will act as an advocate without getting involved in the various standard every day threads."

Do you see this advocate responsibility to be performed in a paid or volunteer status?

What is your estimate of time this function will require on an annual basis?

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
Life # 71449

PGlaves said:

Now to the current case. BMW offers a 3 year - 36,000 mile warranty to protect against defects in materials and workmanship. Honoring that warranty for three years or 36,000 miles is their duty.

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I agree with your comments, but regarding this: Wasn't there a fellow who posted in the MOA forum that BMW wouldn't cover the repair of a fuel pump because his mileage was too low? 2000 miles on an 8 month old GTL I think? Just saying. It's really getting absurd on both sides of it and to be honest, the MOA isn't in a position to rectify much. Again, the ombudsman (my use of the word) is a good idea. May be BMW would be more likely to be sympathetic if laundry wasn't aired, but there needs to be something in place that helps advocate so we don't get to this point. The thing is, once you get a lawyer or file something with the state, BMW will dig in their heels as much as they would in this case. May be someone can come up with a procedure manual for dealing with BMWNA (with footnotes and glossary of course). That would be a very German thing to do.

I feel bad for Randy and anyone else that doesn't get reasonable satisfaction in cases like this. I hope he and others like him get some satisfaction or at least peace of mind.

Wkoppa said:

"The discussion is about having someone who will act as an advocate without getting involved in the various standard every day threads."

Do you see this advocate responsibility to be performed in a paid or volunteer status?

What is your estimate of time this function will require on an annual basis?

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
Life # 71449

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If BMW is everything we believe it is, not much time should be spent at all, no?

Wkoppa said:

"The discussion is about having someone who will act as an advocate without getting involved in the various standard every day threads."

Do you see this advocate responsibility to be performed in a paid or volunteer status?

What is your estimate of time this function will require on an annual basis?

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
Life # 71449

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1) Paid would be ideal - reality say's volunteer. Probably would require more than 1 volunteer would be my guess.

2) Required time? An unknown. By setting a few guidelines in place with maybe a couple of volunteers to ferret out what is hopefully the truth my concept would be that once the group of volunteers agrees the issue at hand is worthy of further pursuit with BMW the next action could be implemented. There are numbers of people who get pretty disturbed over complaints hitting the forum. Whether right or wrong and out of respect for the folks that don't want to see this stuff in the forum possibly setting up a column of some type would be appropriate. Or, maybe a dedicated thread that you could turn off if you so desire. And then the e-mail and Facebook campaign begins.

Important: I do NOT want to turn every issue into a serious problem. The intent is to determine the issues that deserve attention in order to get "right" done. Not to hurt and/or degrade BMW NA despite my own personal feelings on the company.

I don't know how rampant truly wronged BMW customers there are. I am assuming, mind you this is an assumption, that maybe a couple of hours a week would be enough. I really don't know.

ponch1 said:

I agree with your comments, but regarding this: Wasn't there a fellow who posted in the MOA forum that BMW wouldn't cover the repair of a fuel pump because his mileage was too low? 2000 miles on an 8 month old GTL I think? Just saying. It's really getting absurd on both sides of it and to be honest, the MOA isn't in a position to rectify much. Again, the ombudsman (my use of the word) is a good idea. May be BMW would be more likely to be sympathetic if laundry wasn't aired, but there needs to be something in place that helps advocate so we don't get to this point. The thing is, once you get a lawyer or file something with the state, BMW will dig in their heels as much as they would in this case. May be someone can come up with a procedure manual for dealing with BMWNA (with footnotes and glossary of course). That would be a very German thing to do.

I feel bad for Randy and anyone else that doesn't get reasonable satisfaction in cases like this. I hope he and others like him get some satisfaction or at least peace of mind.

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Not everything will automatically fall into the customer's favor. Although surprising a fuel pump would fail that quickly it is not unheard of. Bikes that sit for much of their life can and do have odd failures from time to time. Gas has the capability of ruining a fuel pump if the bike is not used frequently. BMW is not the cause of all problems.

kantuckid said:

Several persons here have been having a serious conversation that contained various worthy points of view (some I agreed with, others not so much & some with no bearing on the thread but OK too) while a few seem to revile in being members of the "above the subject" crowd, seeing this as a nonsensical discussion that they are (I wonder why?) willing to take the time to read but unwilling to offer credibility too the comments of others. Even my "curmugeonly" self finds it demeaning to do so.
This IS a "forum" after all, -like's been said , if it doesn't suit you, walk away from the mouse...

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+1, Gunny; well spoken kantuckid, hopefully these demeaning "above the subject" crowd types will "get it" and hopefully just walk away from the mouse!

Guess I'm one of the those reviling in being a member of the above the subject crowd; one of those who just does not get it. Could be true, or could be that I just expressed my opinion in a brief and succinct fashion. Mine is a valid opinion despite its brevity, certainly no less worthy than those who express themselves in a protracted manner, yet still find time to scold others if they dislike their opinion or method of expressing it. My point, this thread has run it's course.

billy walker said:

To my knowledge no one at any time has stated they want to turn the group into an advocacy group. The discussion is about having someone who will act as an advocate without getting involved in the various standard every day threads. .

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For a number of years I admined and modded the largest motorcycle forum around, and my experience tells me it can't be done with any more success than just posting somewhere on the forum the contact info for BMW corporate and the contact people's names. As was noted, it was tried before here, by one of the most intelligent, nicest men I have ever had the pleasure of meeting, Rob Lentini. As his dear friend Steve stated earlier, Rob said it did not work.