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2001 R1150 GS - Clutch / Transmission Failure at 14,500 miles

John M

New member
Today I headed out for a ride on a beautiful day in Michigan - one of few we've had this spring. I had the 6,000 interval service completed at my local BMW dealership at about 13,500 miles in March. Check oil every time I ride, and at every fill up - no issues with burning oil or leakage of any sort.

I was at a stop sign, took off in 1st gear to cross the intersection, and as I went to shift to second, all I got was a bad whining toward the front of the bike - definitely not toward the rear hub. The transmission would not go into neutral unless turned off, then shifted easily. I tried restarting a couple of times and jostling the bike a bit to see if something was stuck, but just had the same whine, along with a bit of a hot oil smell. If I restarted in neutral everything was fine - engine running perfectly, no warning lights on.

Fortunately I was about a mile from home so just pushed it on back - thankfully a level road. BMW comes to pick it up tomorrow for a diagnosis. I'm hopeful of a clutch but worry it is transmission. Most clutch failures I've had just free revved and didn't make a bad noise - but those weren't on BMW's. This bike has been babied since day one I purchased it with 11k miles from someone I knew - so I'm pretty disappointed in this type of failure at what I would see is low mileage. Was considering a new BMW - but after searching various threads, Quality doesn't seem the strong point I thought it was. Will update the situation once I hear the damages. I do have a good dealer locally so am hopeful.....
 
You know you are on a 12 year old motorcycle? Such few miles on a BMW in that many years is not good for all the seals on the bike.

Unless you heard a very loud "screeeeeeech", it is not the splines. I doubt it is the trans. With so little use I would guess it would be the rear main seal or clutch slave cylinder that failed and the resulting leak fouled the clutch plate.

My best WAG, having not been there :laugh
 
You know you are on a 12 year old motorcycle? Such few miles on a BMW in that many years is not good for all the seals on the bike.

Unless you heard a very loud "screeeeeeech", it is not the splines. I doubt it is the trans. With so little use I would guess it would be the rear main seal or clutch slave cylinder that failed and the resulting leak fouled the clutch plate.

My best WAG, having not been there :laugh

Yes - definitely old, and I've put 3k on it last summer so it only averaged about 1k/ year. I did have various seals checked - but know that normal riding is better to make things last. No large Screeech - it does feel like the clutch plate could be fouled - not engaging - just spinning.

I've done much of the work myself in the first phase of riding - from 1970-85 mostly small dirt bikes, then nothing until around 2005 and then had a Kawasaki KLR650 - still pretty simple. I switched to the GS to stop the vibration of the KLR numbing my hands/feet on longer rides - but worry that my basic skills might create more problems than I fix if I do the work myself. I looked at a bike my friend has, R90/6, which seems a lot more friendly to work on - may have to switch!

Thanks - appreciate the thoughts.
 
The suddenness of the problem probably means something broke - not a gradual oil seal leaking stuff onto the clutch. Stripped transmission input spline?
 
My best guess is your clutch disc is toast. A leaking slave cylinder for the hydraulic operated clutch is suspect. These slave cylinders have been a source of clutch failure. Another contributing factor is the low use this GS has seen in the last 12 years. Unfortunately seals and gaskets dry out from lack of use and fail. I don't suspect you will have any transmission problem, as a clutch failure will be expensive enough to repair.

These are very good machines, but like all machines they need to be used regularly.

Good luck and I hope you are back on the road soon.
 
An incident at that mileage would totally P---- me off! I have an 81 R100RT with 164k and have no fear of taking it on a tour. I also have an 03 R1150RT with 17K that keeps me wondering how far I will get before something fails. I dont get it!
 
An incident at that mileage would totally P---- me off! I have an 81 R100RT with 164k and have no fear of taking it on a tour. I also have an 03 R1150RT with 17K that keeps me wondering how far I will get before something fails. I dont get it!

Well, I have an 03 R1150R with 170,000 miles that has never had an on-road breakdown. So it isn't in the pedigree.
 
A leaking slave cylinder for the hydraulic operated clutch is suspect. These slave cylinders have been a source of clutch failure. Another contributing factor is the low use this GS has seen in the last 12 years. Unfortunately seals and gaskets dry out from lack of use and fail.
I'm not sure I buy that "dry out" concept. Just because it has rarely been hot shouldn't reduce a seal's life, it should increase it. What gaskets would "dry out"?

I think it is pretty much an old wives tale - maybe from the days of cork, leather water etc.
 
An incident at that mileage would totally P---- me off! I have an 81 R100RT with 164k and have no fear of taking it on a tour. I also have an 03 R1150RT with 17K that keeps me wondering how far I will get before something fails. I dont get it!

The great news is I was a mile from home - vs a 1,000 mile weekend route through the upper peninsula I'd planned for Friday. Maybe I can get it on the road by then. I'm pretty happy with the whole experience - including the reality of things breaking. Pushing a broken bike home is still better than sitting in an office. Funny thing is I really like this bike - kind of a quirky, ugly thing....but great at the same time.

Thanks for the thoughts - I will post an update once I know more.
 
The suddenness of the problem probably means something broke - not a gradual oil seal leaking stuff onto the clutch. Stripped transmission input spline?

no chance whatsoever. stripped input splines sound much like a bucket of bolts getting tossed by a cement mixer, as the clutch disc just floats all over the shaft, totally disconnected, but banging all kinds of things.
i'm going with blown seal, leading to fouled clutch surface. rear main seal, clutch slave cylinder or trans input seal would be my guesses, probably in that order of likelihood. seals don't like to sit.
 
Well, I have an 03 R1150R with 170,000 miles that has never had an on-road breakdown. So it isn't in the pedigree.

I sure have read about a lot of spline, final drive and HES failures. Your lucky Paul. We know you stay on top of things.
 
I sure have read about a lot of spline, final drive and HES failures. Your lucky Paul. We know you stay on top of things.

This is an good thread, and I'm interested in hearing what the OP finds out.

But PAS, I wonder if Paul is lucky or more like the protagonist in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" who stays in touch with his machines ...
 
This is an good thread, and I'm interested in hearing what the OP finds out.

But PAS, I wonder if Paul is lucky or more like the protagonist in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" who stays in touch with his machines ...

No doubt he stays in touch and I try to, but sometimes things happen quite unexpectedly. Especially at low mileage. That is one of the things I dont like about the RT, you cant see what is happening under all the tupperware. Such as minor leaks should they occur and doing a simple throttle body synch.
 
Not getting the picture.

1. Running in neutral - whine or no whine?
2. Shifted into first gear, engine off, not touching clutch lever - does trying to rock the bike feel like it's trying to turn the engine over or is it disconnected so pushing is easy?
3. Same question in second gear?

If pushing is easy in first with the clutch lever out, I'm not believing an oily disk is the culprit. Way to much pressure plate spring. Something is broken.

I don't know this clutch disk is manufactured but I have seen riveted hub broken out and spinning in a car clutch disk. Might make a whine.

If something broke, considering the misalignment problem some of these models had, it would be wise to look into WHY something broke.
I went to the trouble of tearing my 2001 down just to check the spline lube. At 60,000 miles the shaft was like new. Fortunately I didn't get one of the bad ones.
 
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Several interesting possible causes presented here. I'm sure everyone is eager hear what the OP reports. :type
 
Not getting the picture.

1. Running in neutral - whine or no whine?
2. Shifted into first gear, engine off, not touching clutch lever - does trying to rock the bike feel like it's trying to turn the engine over or is it disconnected so pushing is easy?
3. Same question in second gear?

If pushing is easy in first with the clutch lever out, I'm not believing an oily disk is the culprit. Way to much pressure plate spring. Something is broken.

I don't know this clutch disk is manufactured but I have seen riveted hub broken out and spinning in a car clutch disk. Might make a whine.

If something broke, considering the misalignment problem some of these models had, it would be wise to look into WHY something broke.
I went to the trouble of tearing my 2001 down just to check the spline lube. At 60,000 miles the shaft was like new. Fortunately I didn't get one of the bad ones.

Thanks:
1 - running in neutral - everything is normal. Shift with clutch still in - normal. Let clutch out in any gear and out comes a grinding whine. Cannot get back into neutral unless I turn off the engine.
2 - not running, shift into first or second - can push easily, with a gritty scraping sound as the bike moves, engine definitely not turning as I push it. The sound appears to be coming from toward the front of the bike. It would be interesting if we could attach audio files - some of you gurus could probably diagnose the problem just from that!

Replaying a ride last weekend I did have a couple of missed shifts - which I thought were my fault due to new boots but now wonder if this was a first symptom.

I will get a diagnosis today - seems like I should buy beers for those who've contributed. Funny how talking about bikes is interesting. Not as good as riding, but still interesting. I will update later today.

My semi uneducated guess is something more than just a seal / oil - more something that broke loose.
 
grinding sounds? can you shift the bike with motor running, or only when bike is off? missed shifts- up or down?

with the bike on the c-stand, running, in gear- what does the rear wheel do? normal speed, partial speed, no motion at all?

and yes, you can attach audio files- just like posting a video. in fact, that might be the easiest way to do it, jsut post a vid.
 
Replaying a ride last weekend I did have a couple of missed shifts - which I thought were my fault due to new boots but now wonder if this was a first symptom.

I will get a diagnosis today - seems like I should buy beers for those who've contributed. Funny how talking about bikes is interesting. Not as good as riding, but still interesting. I will update later today.
I'd like the beer - but hope I'm wrong. Bikerfish has the best sound description of stripped clutch spline.
 
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