Selling it aint so easy...

[billy walker]

It seems logical to me that rather than blame "dealers" folks need to realize there are millions and millions of people, we'll call them "human beings" (a.k.a. "customers"), that are in fact unethical. Out of those millions some of them will want to become dealers and with potential power and potential control over the customer the customer-now-turned-dealer will get the opportunity to continue with their unethical life by owning a store, also known as dealership.

I do not believe dealers turn unethical just because they now own a business although some certainly will do just that. I do firmly believe you had an unethical human being, who also happens to be a customer and who frequents other businesses just like we all do, get hold of an opportunity to steal from others by becoming a dealer.

There is no doubt in my mind the majority of dealers are ethical although it's not something I can prove. If you don't give them the opportunity to prove it you'll never find out. Here's a statement to think about: How many people on this forum work for unethical employers? For those that do are you taking any corrective action against that individual?

For you see ethics are an important part of life. Everyone wants others to be fair to them. Isn't it appropriate we should be fair to others? A previous post states there are people who go to a dealership to try things on for size and then go home and place an order online. It might be hard to believe but the dealers intent wasn't to be someones dressing room. With so many posts that have complained about dealers I'm sure there are no customers who would pull such a stunt. Or, are there?

There is no reason to be biased or to present one-sided stories. Both sides have responsibilities to be fair to one another. No dealer and no customer has the right to take advantage of one another. So simple a concept, so hard for many to live by.

[BC1100S]

Nah! I keep reading all the time folks wanting to find the best deal from China or wherever on the Internet. They go to that good dealer when they absolutely have to, try on a jacket or a helmet, then go home to do their shopping on-line. We read it in threads here all the time.

Then when that good, honest dealer has trouble staying in business we hear all about how it was BMW's fault for requiring gray paint or some such nonsense.

Go find a good dealer. Develop a relationship. Patronize them. My first choice is now 1000 miles away. I've dealt with them for 30 years. My next choice is 450 miles away. But they get my business too.

I live 53 miles from the nearest town. I do buy some stuff off the Internet, but get most things from the local merchants in town because I need them to be there. As for BMW parts - my favorite dealers get the business.

Life for all of us would be better if we shared this point of view. Nothing pisses me off more than when some person refers to a dealer as a "stealership" with no hard reasons to back up their statement. Its just ignorant. Further, try and keep your money in your own country and keep your neighbours working. Believe it or not, we're all in this together.

End of "BC1100S' Philosophy of Life".

[ponch1]

Nah! I keep reading all the time folks wanting to find the best deal from China or wherever on the Internet. They go to that good dealer when they absolutely have to, try on a jacket or a helmet, then go home to do their shopping on-line. We read it in threads here all the time.

Then when that good, honest dealer has trouble staying in business we hear all about how it was BMW's fault for requiring gray paint or some such nonsense.

Go find a good dealer. Develop a relationship. Patronize them. My first choice is now 1000 miles away. I've dealt with them for 30 years. My next choice is 450 miles away. But they get my business too.

I live 53 miles from the nearest town. I do buy some stuff off the Internet, but get most things from the local merchants in town because I need them to be there. As for BMW parts - my favorite dealers get the business.

Don't get me started on China...

The thing that people don't think about is shipping, handling and having to wait for whatever it is they need. When it is added up, the difference shrinks. For instance, I don't go to home depot that much anymore, I'd rather go to the local Ace Hardware. Oil is cheaper at wally world, but I can get at the local O'reilly's too. Stuff like oil filters can be bought at the local dealer too. The only time I draw the line is if the prices are insane. I went to a local motorcycle shop and got PR3s last year for $409 mounted and balanced. The dealer here sells a rear PR3 for over $300 and that doesn't include anything and it's on sale, allegedly. So there are times when saving money can add up to real money.

As far as the gray paint, I do wish BMW had more color on their bikes. Just saying.

[kantuckid]

I always find it interesting to hear the levels of trust that others are willing to take in human beings. Having assumed some risk in some of my various dealings(lots of them) over the years you get to where you notice the "red flags waving" at times, yet I, like a few of you above here continue to trust when necessary & with some prudence applied. It's the real world out there folks & you can either join it or avoid it. I know people who have a vehicle "dealing radius" of ~ 25-30 miles from my rural location & others that it goes out to 55-60 miles & a few that it covers the USA. Me & a couple of car collectors in my extremely rural & POOR! county reach out & touch the world.
While I adhere to PG's analogy of patronizing local business's I can not avoid the fact that it simply doesn't cover my hobbies or other needs to buy everything from the Southern States dealer or the 2 dollar stores or the one grocery in my county that comprise the entire spectrum of shopping here. As an e.g., my last 2 MC jackets came from ADV flea mkt & ebay via a dealer that like me had to extend their sales reach. Many of you really have never had to cope with zero commerce surrounding you. Some persons that I know real well never plan a purchase in advance & furthermore they run the roads burning gas & time to get mundane stuff & important stuff. I can't count the times I've been in a salvage yard to get something I've called about & there's someone in there driving from yard to yard looking for a certain part. I suppose they are patronizing local business huh? There's a line I draw which covers my pocketbook ,time & the ample dose of "Arab trader" in me when I spend $$$. I say "Thank (you know who (AG?) ) for the internet!!!

P.S. Lets face it, selling a vehicle is a PIA @ times & you can carp about it or take it in stride of which I tend to do both depending on the buyer seller-my last sale was one of the "good guys" in a white hat, so to speak. Thats the usual way it goes.

[SteveAikens]

I sold a collection of motorcycles for health issues several years ago. Some were fully restored and very rare collector bikes that sold for more than some would believe they are worth. I sold them all on eBay. All at $500 at the close of the auction, balance due in full when the bikes are picked-up. All sold as-is/where-is. In one case, the buyer asked if I'd be willing to deliver the bike [one of the very rare ones] to an air freight company in Albuquerque for $600. He paid in full before I even looked out the window to see if my trailer was still in the yard. All the others either had someone show up at my door with cash or came themselves.

Never a problem, never a question of scam/fraud/escrow or any other BS.

If that's not how your deal goes - you need to walk.

[8ninety8]

Hate to bring up the good old days, but, I never sold a bike but that the prospective buyer always swung a leg over the saddle and went for a fairly long spin, even down the freeway to see if they liked the ride. And always cash, and always local. Gives me the cold chills today just thinking about it in our torted up brave new society. Can't imagine trying to sell my current cobbled together R90. Every bike I ever bought was considered by me to need a complete goin-through with the necessary costs and caveat emptor the thought of the day. Never believed anything the seller was sayin. Two sense.

[71243]

I always find it interesting to hear the levels of trust that others are willing to take in human beings. Having assumed some risk in some of my various dealings(lots of them) over the years you get to where you notice the "red flags waving" at times, yet I, like a few of you above here continue to trust when necessary & with some prudence applied. It's the real world out there folks & you can either join it or avoid it. I know people who have a vehicle "dealing radius" of ~ 25-30 miles from my rural location & others that it goes out to 55-60 miles & a few that it covers the USA. Me & a couple of car collectors in my extremely rural & POOR! county reach out & touch the world.
While I adhere to PG's analogy of patronizing local business's I can not avoid the fact that it simply doesn't cover my hobbies or other needs to buy everything from the Southern States dealer or the 2 dollar stores or the one grocery in my county that comprise the entire spectrum of shopping here. As an e.g., my last 2 MC jackets came from ADV flea mkt & ebay via a dealer that like me had to extend their sales reach. Many of you really have never had to cope with zero commerce surrounding you. Some persons that I know real well never plan a purchase in advance & furthermore they run the roads burning gas & time to get mundane stuff & important stuff. I can't count the times I've been in a salvage yard to get something I've called about & there's someone in there driving from yard to yard looking for a certain part. I suppose they are patronizing local business huh? There's a line I draw which covers my pocketbook ,time & the ample dose of "Arab trader" in me when I spend $$$. I say "Thank (you know who (AG?) ) for the internet!!!

P.S. Lets face it, selling a vehicle is a PIA @ times & you can carp about it or take it in stride of which I tend to do both depending on the buyer seller-my last sale was one of the "good guys" in a white hat, so to speak. Thats the usual way it goes.

It is true, what you say. What we want may not be local, as such we need to reach out. Here for examp. we have no BMW dealer , closest one is 100 miles. so if I'm in the market , new or used. It will be a non-local purchase, and as i stated before. Trust will be involved.

[wmchardy]

Another option to consider, if your current sales offer goes south...See if your local dealer will allow you to sell it through his dealership on a "consignment" basis. Tipically, this means the dealership will get an up-front agreed upon amount (normally much less than the loss you would take if you sold it to him), the transaction can be conducted through the dealership (less of a headache for you), you won't have to worry about the legitimacy of the buyer's payment (counterfeit or what have you),and, your bike will usually get great exposure and sometimes some free advertisement.

I have sold a number of bikes, as well as boats, cars, trucks, etc. over the years. It's never easy, but you get used to it. I sold one BMW by way of consignemnt through my local (90 miles away) BMW dealer a few years ago. I have another one for sale by consignment on his showroom floor right now. This dealer treats me right. Of course, it may have something to do with the money I spend at his buisiness.

Just something to consider.

Will McHardy

[ricochetrider]

Rule #1:
Money talks, BS walks.

CL is a place where all manner of scammers troll. One of the main rules of thumb for CL transactions: NO third party involvement. NONE. Period. Cashier's checks, money orders, etc can all be easily faked. Don't be a sucker. This is already too complicated. Any truly honest person would have been far more forthright in their actions and/or deed.

When in doubt, refer to rule #1.

As someone already said: ask yourself why this person wants your bike when there must be plenty for sale in his own locale. Just for fun, lets say for some reason he HAS to have YOUR bike. If he wants it THAT badly, then what's the hold-up?

Rule #2: refer to rule #1.

Cheers.
And best of luck.

[Firenailer]

Wow, this thread is hitting pretty close to home!

I really don't tour the way I used to due to some neck and shoulder injuries and only ride 5000 - 6000 miles a year now, mostly day trips or overnight type rides. Our NY winter was pretty severe and this was the first time in my entire life that I parked the bike in late November and didn't ride at all until late March.

I got to thinking that maybe it was time to hang it up and listed my RT on a few websites and eBay. Well, the only thing I can say is it's just not worth it! A gal purchased it during the first eBay listing at the buy it now ending the auction. Of course she was - " an American marina stationed at sea doing some federal project and would send an agent to claim the motorcycle". Alrighty then, so eBay gives a re- list and its going along good, lots of lookers, getting questions by email etc. until some guy from who knows where starts sending emails. Like 27 so far. " Why won't you accept a wire, it must be checked out and signed off by a dealer, will you deliver, there is a bike located near me that's cheaper, why are you selling, is there a return grace period, I'd really prefer to wire you payment, why wont you accept that"......On and on.

I finally said the hell with it, and de- listed the ad. I may not ride the way I used to but life is too short for all of that! Wow, never again. When the day comes that I really can't ride anymore, the "Grey Ghost" will make a nice garage backdrop and it ain't going anywhere.

In the meantime I'm surprised to find another 980 miles have accumulated on the odometer since I took it out to get it inspected that first day this year. How the heck did they get there?

[kantuckid]

Post #40, welcome to the world we all live in now. I heard from the same "marina", shuck it off-they're out there. Ebay & Craigslist have plenty of flakes & waaaaaaayyyyyy more regular folks that take it in stride. I have my times that I grunt & groan with the "winners" of auctions not following through as the many warnings attest but you can always call the ebay people in India and get that phony bidder removed from the eligible list.
I have my bike listed on CL,IBMWR,MOA & ADV now & only had one junk email(it looked OK but filtered as junk), so maybe its a slow day in the dark continent?
The recent statement that "they could find it closer to home" still ignores the fact that there really are not that many(if any at all) MC's that are of a certain brand,model,year,condition,etc., in most rural areas. The one I have for sale now came from D/FW & I can assure you they are not to be found just anywhere. Sure, they come up every now & then but lets be real, BMW is a niche market MC & much the same for the other 1st choice buys to be found. I find that one must tolerate a certain level of distrust or caution in the other guy until we both have found our comfort zone, then once it's apparent that we are both sorta of lucid & regular folks(whatever that is?) it proceeds as in the "good old days".
I've done lots of buys/sells on ADV rider where trust is involved & never an issue yet. OTOH, I can remember some good old days dealings with some real old time crooks. There's still may be the guy in KS that kept my cash deposit on a Triumph & sold it to someone else the same week before I got paid & may his soul go to hell soon. There's also the guy that owns a local GM brand dealership in KS that shows up at my HS reunions thats dad cheated me on a 1957 Pontiac(off a BIG fancy lot too!) & he is the same guy that cheated my friend out of his BBQ business. Yes, they have always been around and not always from Africa.

[20715]

Reading these posts...man, am I fortunate. I've sold three bikes in the past 5 years (2 Triumphs, 1 BMW) and all sold within a few days to guys at work. I work in a plant with over 3000 people. I'm well known there, as are my bikes, and I priced them a bit lower than market value. Easier to do when you're talking $5K instead of $5500, etc. I took personal checks for two, and the third brought a bank draft. I did list the Scrambler on a couple of web sites, this one and AdvRider, and even in those few days I got some knucklehead calls, so I can sure sympathize.

[58058D]

I just sold and bought, but free delivery was included in each. Sold my K13S through the regional sportbike forum, BARF, Craigslist yielded nothing real, just a ton of scams. In our area, Craig'sList is okay for small stuff, but not vehicles, in my view. Since I am in a remote area, I included delivery within a given distance. I had the bike fully up to snuff but the buyer paid the San Jose BMW shop for an inspection. They were Very professional to both of us and made both of us feel good about the quality of care I had shown the bike. So, once the inspection was done and he was satisfied, we left the bike there and drove to his credit union, they cut me a check directly and I signed all the DMV paperwork. We shook hands and off we went our separate ways. For my purchase - '06 Ninja 650 racebike, also found through BARF - Delivery was also included in the deal due to the seller's distance from the prime purchasing market. He drove over to my house from Reno, I handed him 40 $100's, we signed paper work and shook hands and went our separate ways.

The sale of the S was somewhat daunting. The market is not great, and until it became clear that the buyer would have to get a loan to cover the diffference between the agreed price and his insurance settlement for a prior bike, I was fretting the actual transaction. At that time, there were lots of articles in local papers about Craigslist buyers and sellers getting robbed of either the cash or the vehicle in the SF/SJ area. Once it became clear I would get a check directly from his credit union, I relaxed. Doing the entire money/DMV transaction at the credit union was the way for such a large sale. On the other hand, I felt totally comfortable taking possession of a never titled racebike after handing over a (much smaller) wad of cash....go figure.

[marchyman]

Easy... when the price is right.

I recently mentioned to a bunch of riding buddies that I'd ordered a new GS. One of them asked what I wanted for the old GS. I mentioned a price. They said "That's all!" and indicated an interest in the bike. A few weeks (and a trip to Death Valley) later I sent that individual an email asking him if he was serious about buying my bike. Yep. Because a ridding buddy is buying the bike I'm not stripping it bare as I would to try to sell it on the general market. Less work for me and a reasonable price for him on a well farkled bike. I think they call that Win-Win.

[PGlaves]

Easy... when the price is right.

I recently mentioned to a bunch of riding buddies that I'd ordered a new GS. One of them asked what I wanted for the old GS. I mentioned a price. They said "That's all!" and indicated an interest in the bike. A few weeks (and a trip to Death Valley) later I sent that individual an email asking him if he was serious about buying my bike. Yep. Because a ridding buddy is buying the bike I'm not stripping it bare as I would to try to sell it on the general market. Less work for me and a reasonable price for him on a well farkled bike. I think they call that Win-Win.

It has been my experience, buying 30 or so bikes and selling or trading 20 or so of them, that the biggest problems arise when sellers for whatever reason have too high a price on a bike, or a buyer wants a lot more bike than they are willing to pay for. When a seller has a reasonable price and a buyer has reasonable expectations as to what his/her dollars will buy it goes very smoothly.