• Welcome Guest! If you are already a member of the BMW MOA, please log in to the forum in the upper right hand corner of this page. Check "Remember Me?" if you wish to stay logged in.

    We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMWMOA forum provides. Why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the club magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMWMOA offers?

    Want to read the MOA monthly magazine for free? Take a 3-month test ride of the magazine; check here for details.

  • NOTE. Some content will be hidden from you. If you want to view all content, you must register for the forum if you are not a member, or if a member, you must be logged in.

No more clutch! 2002 R1150RTP

OfficerImpersonator

Seattle-area Rounder
Pulled into my garage after the commute home, and as I'm walking the bike around the garage, it becomes apparent my clutch won't engage. There is almost no resistance at the clutch lever. As I was trying to get the clutch to engage, a small amount of dirty black fluid began dripping from the bottom of the back of the engine case. The photos show the quantity and qualities of the fluid, and the area from where it dripped for a couple of minutes. It stopped dripping as quickly as it began. I feel blessed that this happened in my garage, and not half-way between work and home, out on the interstate! I'm also blessed to have a 2nd bike, so 'Helga' can sit around while I figure out what's wrong with her.

She has 81,000 miles on it, but only 5,000 miles since a new clutch and a new clutch input shaft just about a year ago. What the heck is going on?
 

Attachments

  • 20130327_163712.jpg
    20130327_163712.jpg
    34.8 KB · Views: 277
  • 20130327_163723.jpg
    20130327_163723.jpg
    24.3 KB · Views: 277
  • 20130327_164426.jpg
    20130327_164426.jpg
    45.1 KB · Views: 278
The clutch slave cylinder is toast; a common Oil head issue. If the fluid has not made it on to your clutch plate it is a simple replacement of the slave and a re-bleed and you are good to go. Slave is a $100+, could be as much as $150, I forget, try beemer boneyard first.

This is where the fluid is. Here I have removed the cylinder on my RT and you can see the clutch fluid, it should not be there. I was not lucky, my clutch plate was fouled so I had to also do a clutch job. On my GS, when my slave went it did not take my clutch, it just did it 1,000 miles from home. When my S slave started going I replaced it quick. As I said....common problem

i-3CDVgQt-M.jpg
 
This is why many people cut a slot in that gasket so the brake fluid has a place to leak out rather than contaminate the clutch. Always ask for a new slave when having the clutch replaced.

Rod
 
The clutch slave cylinder is toast; a common Oil head issue. If the fluid has not made it on to your clutch plate it is a simple replacement of the slave and a re-bleed and you are good to go. Slave is a $100+, could be as much as $150, I forget, try beemer boneyard first.

This is where the fluid is. Here I have removed the cylinder on my RT and you can see the clutch fluid, it should not be there. I was not lucky, my clutch plate was fouled so I had to also do a clutch job. On my GS, when my slave went it did not take my clutch, it just did it 1,000 miles from home. When my S slave started going I replaced it quick. As I said....common problem

View attachment 39433

I have a spare slave cylinder that I haven't installed yet. Is this a partially lift the tail job or can you get at the slave without a lifting it?
 
With a ball end allen wrench you can do it with just removing wheel. It's a tight fit, but doable. I use a ball end L allen wrench and a combo of swivels on a 3/8 drive socket. There is a bar in the way across the transmission housing, but patience will prevail.

A good indicator the slave is going south is the DOT4 in the master cylinder is dark or looks like chocolate milk:banghead.I change the fluid yearly in both brake and clutch systems on the 1150 series and the 1100S.

Have also gotten folks down the road by changing fluid sometimes...sometimes it works for another day to get home....sometimes it's blown and needs attention before wiping out the clutch disc.
 
I was hoping to hear that with some patience I could get to it. Since I have the part I really should just do it this spring. Thanks for the outline.
 
I have a spare slave cylinder that I haven't installed yet. Is this a partially lift the tail job or can you get at the slave without a lifting it?

The Hen boy could be correct. I had to do my clutch on my RT so of course I tore the RT down. On my S I just did it in with long allens and it was very quick and easy.

I would guess the RT is the same; however, they do have different frames.
 
allens

You have to clean out and flush clean fluid through the master cylinder before replacing the slave cylinder to get all that junk out of the hydraulic line .
The hardest part of removing the s/c is the two allens holding the hydraulic lines to the top of the s/c. There isn't enough room above the s/c to get a normal size allen onto those banjo bolts with the s/c in position, and if you loosen the s/c first and twist it slightly, you can get your wrench onto the banjos, but you can't get enough torque on the banjos to loosen them. If you sacrifice an allen wrench by cutting the short arm verrryy short, you can get the allen on top of the s/c while it is still mounted to the back of the transmission to get the lines loose. The cut down allens will save you about 19 dozen hours of grunting, swearing, twisting, and tool throwing, and cuts the replacement time by about 50 percent.
You still have to have a ball end allen to loosen the s/c from the back of the transmission because you can't get a straight-in approach to the bolts.
 
Did you notice at some point in the recent past that your clutch lever engagement point seemed to move closer to the hand grip? That's a sure sign that your bearing cage has failed and you are well on your way to a slave cylinder failure.
 
10-4 on the cut-down allens for the banjo bolts. last year i did a "preventive" and replaced the s/c after i saw the BLACK fluid in the res.
Main Seal was okay although i replaced that one during the spline lube a few months later.
 
Slave is a $100+, could be as much as $150, I forget, try beemer boneyard first. When my S slave started going I replaced it quick. As I said....common problem

Max BMW lists the part at $155. None are currently listed in Beemer Boneyard's online inventory.

Wouldn't I want a new part? If the slave cylinder should be replaced every time the clutch is replaced, doesn't that presume replacement with a new part?

Thanks again for the advice and insight - this forum is always helpful and informative and entertaining!
 
Max BMW lists the part at $155. None are currently listed in Beemer Boneyard's online inventory.

Wouldn't I want a new part? If the slave cylinder should be replaced every time the clutch is replaced, doesn't that presume replacement with a new part?

The boneyard sells new stuff, their OEM replacement part is $99. It comes with the gasket. If your wrench is not a BMW dealer, then order the part for him from the boneyard and save $56

http://www.beemerboneyard.com/21522335061n.html
 
The boneyard sells new stuff, their OEM replacement part is $99. It comes with the gasket. If your wrench is not a BMW dealer, then order the part for him from the boneyard and save $56

http://www.beemerboneyard.com/21522335061n.html

I've never had better luck with a mechanical failure! It occurs in my garage... I have a 2nd bike... I don't have to pay the dealer's price for the part...

Now if only my mechanic will say "Gee - I should have replaced that when I replaced your clutch 5000 miles ago - this one's on me!".
 
Quick comment; have your wrench check the condition of the clutch lines at the union of the line and metal curved section just before the cylinder. They can start to corrode and leak in this area.
 
I've never had better luck with a mechanical failure! It occurs in my garage... I have a 2nd bike... I don't have to pay the dealer's price for the part...

Now if only my mechanic will say "Gee - I should have replaced that when I replaced your clutch 5000 miles ago - this one's on me!".

I had one fail on a road trip. I rode 600 or so miles in a day with zero clutch, and got it fixed at my next stop, that was Denver. I will admit I looked pretty silly pulling into gas stops on my beautiful fully packed BMW wearing a full BMW Rally II suit and bouncing to a stop each time. People would look at me like "Daymn, that guy can't ride a lick". I would say, "If you liked that, wait until I leave, it gets even better" :laugh
 
Now if only my mechanic will say "Gee - I should have replaced that when I replaced your clutch 5000 miles ago - this one's on me!".

I don't think that's a reasonable expectation. There would be no reason to replace the slave cylinder at the same time you replace the clutch. They are completely separate items. Your slave cylinder failure is in no way related to your clutch issue. It's just bad timing.
 
There would be no reason to replace the slave cylinder at the same time you replace the clutch. It's just bad timing.

Actually it the bearing should be lubed periodically IMO.
My (original) slave has 238,000 km on it and has been lubed on 3 occasions.
I use good quality hight temp wheel bearing grease and apply with a Q tip.
These bearings don't come with enough grease new as the picture below shows. Notice the dry balls. I have replaced a few on clients bikes now and found minimal grease in each case on new OE slaves.
It looks like like an automated greasing system which is not set correctly.
Spin the bearing working extra grease in with the pushrod as a tool.

 
Actually it the bearing should be lubed periodically IMO.
My (original) slave has 238,000 km on it and has been lubed on 3 occasions.
I use good quality hight temp wheel bearing grease and apply with a Q tip.
These bearings don't come with enough grease new as the picture below shows. Notice the dry balls. I have replaced a few on clients bikes now and found minimal grease in each case on new OE slaves.
It looks like like an automated greasing system which is not set correctly.
Spin the bearing working extra grease in with the pushrod as a tool.


Nice pics!
 
Thought I'd give you guys an update...

I ordered the part through beemerboneyard.com - $50 cheaper than through the stealership. Part arrived today. Bike also needs a new rear tire, so it's a no-brainer to have my wrench do both at the same time. Mechanic has estimated it'll cost me $250 to have him replace my rear tire and install the new clutch slave cylinder - plus an additional $250 for the new rear tire. As soon as I've saved up $500, I can think about getting the RTP back on the road again!

I've gotta admit - having the '12 GSA a a 'back-up' bike is a nice luxury!
 
Back
Top