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DIY Maintenance

I do all the maintenance on all of our bikes.

Current BMW's:

04 R1200C
97 R850R
07 F650GS's (his and hers)
71 R75/5
78 R80 hack
78 R45

I cannot afford to take anything to a dealer. Especially when the closest dealer is over 100 miles away.
 
The technician at the dealership has

BMW training and lots of service literature
lots of tools, including BMW special tools
experience
parts on hand, including a BMW parts expert

Politically correct ... it bothers me lots that some folks approach DIY as if none of the above is important or required. Since the DIYer isn't making a living doing this, s/he can do the work for a much lower wage, but when trying to do it without the listed resources it quickly approaches a fool's game and the possibility of doing expensive damage. ......


...It bothers me that $85+ per hour trained technicians working on my motorcycle can be careless and aren't nearly as attentive to detail as I am. Some of the negligence I've experienced; oil dripping on the driveway after driving home because the oil drain plug was not tightened, actually barely hanging on. Bike running erratically, found vacuum hose not put back on TB. Finding right side gas tank bolt almost backed out. Three trips to remedy brake pad wear fault found to be caused by broken wire. I have friends with worse experiences.

The above was done by BMW technicians who no doubt have more mechanical skill, experience, and training than I do. They are payed a flat rate which encourages them to "beat the rate" in order to make more money. They also get distracted. Many shops actually prevent the customer from communicating with the mechanic working on their bike, only allowing you to speak through a third party, the service manager. There are all kinds of reasons but bad work does occur and it's not that uncommon.
 
I just have a hard time trusting dealers to do anything. Is much to easy espeically for work that is concealed within the engine or fairings to simply say "yeah we did that, it'll be 500 dollars please", even though the work never actually got done especially for something that is just a check and not a replacement of a part.

I've also seen way too much shody work come out of dealers that seem like they have zero quality control. How hard is it to have a second tech or a supervisor come over and look over your work and torques real quick. It's amazing what a second set of eyes can pick up on a casual look over. But that's just my aviation side coming out in me. Any work that is done on our aircraft is signed off not only by the person that did the work but the person that came behind them and inspected said work. Something goes wrong guess who's getting to spend sometime in jail if people get hurt? The CDI, or CDQAR. (QC for the civilian types)
 
back before last year when our BMW dealer went out of business...

I would contact the service manager tell him the bike number and the mileage.. he would tell me what needed to be done, and i would perform what i could before taking it in... and it saved me a ton o money....we had a good relationship...

Sorry to see them fail...

not sure what i'm adding to the conversation.... so i'll shut up...
 
I've been doing routine maintenance on cars and m/cycles for 45 years. At first I did it because I was a poor college kid who couldn't afford to take my VW bug to a dealer.

But, now I can afford to pay someone to do the work, but why? Call it "bonding" with my vehicles, or whatever, but I actually enjoy it.

So, after 45 years of wrenching, I wonder when or if I will ever be considered a professional? I'd like to receive a commendation of some sort, a plaque, ribbon, or something to show that I've finally achieved some level of professionalism. :thumb

((BTW, I have a few stories I could tell about mechanics doing warranty work on a vehicle, and, trust me, those stores ain't pretty.))

Now if I were otherwise incapacitated and had to pay a mechanic to do my maintenance work, well, I've heard on good authority that this one does good work:

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KLRPhoto3_zps9e27d877.jpg
 
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The technician at the dealership has

BMW training and lots of service literature
lots of tools, including BMW special tools
experience
parts on hand, including a BMW parts expert

And just what makes you think that that technician's training is so absolutely specific to a BMW. And what makes you think they are truly "experts." Tools, I've got tools, some are as good or better than the ones at the dealer. Wana get a show of hands of guys who have had these "experts" screw up something on their bike? There are dealerships that can be trusted and ones that absolutely can't.

Politically correct ... it bothers me lots that some folks approach DIY as if none of the above is important or required. Since the DIYer isn't making a living doing this, s/he can do the work for a much lower wage, but when trying to do it without the listed resources it quickly approaches a fool's game and the possibility of doing expensive damage. Silliest of all are those that feel they can jump into something they've never done before without even owning a service manual. I'm certainly not inclined to try to bail someone like that out when they come to the Internet for help as IMHO they're demonstrating a disdain for professionals and for those DIY folks that have taken the time and spent the $$ to obtain resources. I highly recommend that you read the above paragraph again and use a bit of thought about what you said. Lot's of DIY'ers are automotive, aircraft and other types of technicians with loads of experience. Doing a valve check on a GS is child's play IF you read the book or look at JVB's DVD's. Yes, if you just dive into a job without any experience, tools or references you are a fool. Those idiots don't last very long.

I still haven't forgotten the guy who wrote in here "do I have to take the whole front end off this motorcycle to change a turn signal bulb?" I answered him with the respect he earned but couldn't be bothered to show. No.

Yes, everybody has to start somewhere at some time, but a little preparation goes a long way. I almost always recommend joining your local BMW club and/or having a friend that's an engineer. engineer? I'll take a good mechanic.

And, there's the paradox that all of us when we buy a used bike would love to have documented service records and if they are DIY we discount them. Some DIY savings may be lost when it comes time to sell the bike.

Finally, it's nothing but an inappropriate (and boring) ego trip to attempt to in any way categorize who does and who doesn't DIY. Owning a motorcycle, owning a BMW, owning a particular model BMW, doing DIY, being young, being old, being afraid, being brave ... none of this makes you a superior or inferior individual. Unfortunate premise for this thread.
If you ever spend some time talking to shop owners and other long time bike riders you will see that lots of bike riders have reputations based on brand or specific model. Just bring up HD in a conversation and you'll see my point. BMW's have a reputation, so do FJR's, Moto Guzi's, man do Wing Nuts have a reputation, etc. If you find this topic inappropriate or a boring ego trip, please feel free to ignore it.

Have a great day!
 
Dadayama has a point. A vital service dept. may keep the dealership open. And the newer EC fuel injected models requiring computerized service by factory trained technicians keep the service dept, hummin. And, there are still some airhead owners who need a service dept. for simple oil changes ans tune ups.
 
I don't see why this thread becomes right vs. wrong. There are those, and I am certainly one, who are more than capable (and have the tools) to tackle any job on any of my bikes. But there are those who should never own a screwdriver. We all have skills. Use the skills you have, and pay for the skills you lack. There's no judgement going on.
 
I don't see why this thread becomes right vs. wrong. There are those, and I am certainly one, who are more than capable (and have the tools) to tackle any job on any of my bikes. But there are those who should never own a screwdriver. We all have skills. Use the skills you have, and pay for the skills you lack. There's no judgement going on.

Well said.


:dance:dance:dance
 
Since I'm retired (my time seems worthless) I do my own work. Yes we have a good dealer only 125 miles away but I enjoy doing it myself. I keep a spreadsheet of all maintenance and repair work by date and mileage. I'm now due for a brake flush, oil change, valve adjust and tb sync. I need to ride a bit to lower the level of fuel in the tank so it's easier to r&r but I'll get to it soon. I have purchased a GS911 and electronic tb sync tool as well as the necessary funny funnel for brake flush. I made my own dummy brake pads from a nice piece of oak.
 
I almost always recommend joining your local BMW club and/or having a friend that's an engineer.

And, there's the paradox that all of us when we buy a used bike would love to have documented service records and if they are DIY we discount them. Some DIY savings may be lost when it comes time to sell the bike.

Finally, it's nothing but an inappropriate (and boring) ego trip to attempt to in any way categorize who does and who doesn't DIY. Owning a motorcycle, owning a BMW, owning a particular model BMW, doing DIY, being young, being old, being afraid, being brave ... none of this makes you a superior or inferior individual. Unfortunate premise for this thread.

Kent, you were doing so well playing nice for a while.
I can't figure out why you post.
Engineering is a design function, never necessary for maintenance and rarely for repair.
And how did you decide that superiority was a premise for this thread?
 
And, there's the paradox that all of us when we buy a used bike would love to have documented service records and if they are DIY we discount them. Some DIY savings may be lost when it comes time to sell the bike.

I think having dealer service records might, MIGHT, help you sell a bike faster, but in my experience, does not do anything for the price. I've sold a couple of bikes in the last 5 years. I think that my DIY shop HELPS me sell the bikes. They see the lift, the tools, the books, etc. And, I walk them through the bike. See that tank? No rust. See that chain and sprocket? Not worn and dry. Etc. I even teach them how to do the maintenance on a bike if they want to learn as an incentive.

So at least for me, not having anything more than an excel spreadsheet and receipts for the parts, has not hurt my resale value.

Here's one amusing story. I was selling my wife's 250cc Night Hawk. A young college girl looked at it. I taught her how to work on it and told her if she needed help or advice, call me. I had it listed for $2100. She offered me the $2100. I told her, "Come on, you have to barter, try $1600 as an offer!" I ended up giving it to her for what I paid, $1800. So I talked myself out of $300. But she was a good kid ("kid" = about 22), it was her first bike, she needed gear, etc.

I am well paid and well off. Not everything is about money.
 
I do all or almost all of our maintenance. I say "almost all" because there are certain, uncommon tasks that I refuse to do any more. For example, I sent an R1100RS transmission off to Tom Cutter and a K75 final drive off to Bruno because they have skills and tools I don't have. The last transmission I did, I was only 98% sure I had everything right and 98% isn't sure enough for me for critical work.

I think you will find that many of us started on pre-'69 models, worked on Airheads, then K bikes, then Oilheads, etc. I have never tackled an S100RR or K1600 and probably never will. I tend to work on bikes we own. Actually, before I ever touched a BMW with a wrench I maintained several Yamahas and lots of cars.

I also suspect that if one were to tally up percentages a higher proportion of Airhead owners do their own maintenance than later models. It is part personality and part the manner in which Airhead bikes lend themselves to owner maintenance. This is for two reasons: maintenance is straightforward if not simple; and, the bikes need frequent maintenance. Points and carburetors need much more frequent twiddling than good fuel injection and electronic ignition systems. Airhead valves need much more frequent attention to adjustment than do classic K bikes or F bikes, or even Oilheads.

Many DIY owners have a lot of trepidation about newer models. Some folks are absolutely superb with a wrench and a disaster waiting to happen with a multi-meter or occiloscope. But much of the maintenance is essentially the same model to model. Oil and fluid changes (iABS excepted) are about the same. Replacing brake pads - ditto. Changing shocks - ditto. Wheels, tires, and wheel bearings - ditto.

I think the dividing line comes between folks who have been doing it a long time compared to newcomers to the sport. And except for Airhead newcomers, I think the old wife's tales about the difficulty of maintaining newer machines puts them off.
 
I would add one additional reason to Paul's comment about why airhead owners are more likely to do their own work- too many shops no longer employ mechanics with experience on them, and they get nervous about diving into a 30yo machine.
 
I take it one step further. I don't see younger kids today WILLING and INTERESTED in doing maintenance. We live in a throw it away world. As a guy who works on R Airheads, R oil heads, R Hex Heads, R Cam Heads and Japanese inline 4's, as well as cars and a whole lot of stuff, I say that the modern bikes are EASIER than older bikes. I certainly prefer my R12RT to my R90. Not even close. But older guys tend to stick with what they know, and younger guys tend to not want to work on anything. Bike, lawnmower, etc.

My neighbor hit a nail with his chainsaw and said he was done for the day because he didn't have another chain and there was not a store open yet on Sunday to buy one. What??? Just Sharpen it here I told him. Whoooooa, sharpen it? That's HARD. I whipped out my 12v electric sharpener and we had him back in bushiness in ten minutes, with a sharper chain than what he started with.

So, does he sharpen his own chains now? Hell no, he takes them in or buys a new one!

Younger guys (I'm 50) don't want to do crap with their hands. They just want to watch TV.

I'm really excited that there is a 14 year old kid across the street who just got a Honda 100cc dirt bike, used, needing work. He's interested and we just rebuilt his carburetor. Finally, a kid who wants to learn and loves to see the results of his work.
 
I take it one step further. I don't see younger kids today WILLING and INTERESTED in doing maintenance. We live in a throw it away world. As a guy who works on R Airheads, R oil heads, R Hex Heads, R Cam Heads and Japanese inline 4's, as well as cars and a whole lot of stuff, I say that the modern bikes are EASIER than older bikes. I certainly prefer my R12RT to my R90. Not even close. But older guys tend to stick with what they know, and younger guys tend to not want to work on anything. Bike, lawnmower, etc.

My neighbor hit a nail with his chainsaw and said he was done for the day because he didn't have another chain and there was not a store open yet on Sunday to buy one. What??? Just Sharpen it here I told him. Whoooooa, sharpen it? That's HARD. I whipped out my 12v electric sharpener and we had him back in bushiness in ten minutes, with a sharper chain than what he started with.

So, does he sharpen his own chains now? Hell no, he takes them in or buys a new one!

Younger guys (I'm 50) don't want to do crap with their hands. They just want to watch TV.

I'm really excited that there is a 14 year old kid across the street who just got a Honda 100cc dirt bike, used, needing work. He's interested and we just rebuilt his carburetor. Finally, a kid who wants to learn and loves to see the results of his work.

I disagree to a point. I don't think its entirely a lack of wanting to fix things, its a lack of being taught that you can and how to do it. Good for you for passing your knowledge to your nieghborhood youth. That's very much the same as helping other owners to understand their motorcycles through our virtual community. Yes, there are those who will always prefer to let someone else do it for them and that's fine too. Neither they nor us DIYers are right or wrong, we're just different.

There is also the fact that much of what is built today is not really designed with repair in mind. I learned from my dad, who in his era of auto mechanics learned a lot more repair skills than even I did when I did my training (I'm grateful for the knowledge he shared with me as it's something many of my peers lacked when I apprenticed which is 30 years past). Today, there is much less of that since the components and parts do not lend themselves to overhaul. The cost of labour is one factor driving that, Its become less costly to just toss and replace than to overhaul/repair many items. It has also become much less costly to manufacture a component in a fashion that makes it impossible to dissassemble for repair. Yes the ingenuitive among us can sometimes overcome that, but often its simply a matter of diagnostics and part replacement. Unfortunately, the cost of those parts for us who could invest our own "free" labour is higher since rather than buying just a small bushing to repair a starter for example, we have to buy the entire unit. If one could get the starter apart in the first place, finding the new bushing would be a challenge.

Actual repair work is become a lost art, but I don't entirely blame lack of interest from the more recent generations.
 
Agree with Robo, youth is a large factor to throw away or fix'er up. My son is now in his thirties and occasionally asks the most disturbingly simple questions about his car. The older guys/gals usually took shop class, mechanical drawing, woods shop, automobile maintenence/repair and the like, which today have been largely eliminated from secondary education because of litigation problems and high tech/cheaper curriculum alternatives. "Dad" also pushed us under the car to point out the oil drain plug etc., combined with a buddies old flathead V8 cruising antics, today's "old" guys/gals grew up hands on.

It's second nature for a boomer to take the snowblower apart when it starts smoking, check it over, maybe a ring job with new piston, and yer good to go. With a motorcycle, a device that propels you down a road in visceral delight, the return in taking it apart beforehand is even greater. 2 sense.
 
All three of my kids can do a brake job on a car or a bike. (And basic service). They've got no real interest and only do it with me because its cheaper and higher quality than they'd get at the shop.

I'm 46 and happy to work on my 74 R90/6 or my 12 K1600. I will most likely pay the shop to do the 18k service as the bikes under warranty (be first time the dealer has touched it)
 
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