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New BMW guy, old rider, and BMW brakes

I have no problem switching to my other bikes, my brain just flips into non integrated mode.

I have three different braking systems on my bikes. I have fully integrated ABS, traditional brakes and a maxi-scooter with the rear brake on the left hand lever. Going from one to the other is automatic and I brake without even thinking.
 
So, are you going to use the bike supplied by the school or your own bike in the upcoming class?

I'll be using my bike.

It is interesting to read that there are so many divers and aviators answering up. I too flew In the Navy as an ASW weapons system operator, not a pilot. And about the same time I sold my Sabre was about the last time I was diving. Maybe that will need to be next on my resume.
 
From my MSF instructor viewpoint, and based on your background, experience and training, I'd suggest the MSF ERC at the least as a re-introduction to motorcycle training. But my bet is you'd do well in the MSF ARC. Both classes are done on your bike. If you feel a bit hesitant about taking a training class on your own bike, the take the ERC first. If you are confident on your bike then the ARC would do the most for you.

Kudos to you though to realize the training and learning never stop. Same for me after 41 years of riding.
 
From my MSF instructor viewpoint, and based on your background, experience and training, I'd suggest the MSF ERC at the least as a re-introduction to motorcycle training. But my bet is you'd do well in the MSF ARC. Both classes are done on your bike. If you feel a bit hesitant about taking a training class on your own bike, the take the ERC first. If you are confident on your bike then the ARC would do the most for you.

Kudos to you though to realize the training and learning never stop. Same for me after 41 years of riding.

What is the average retrain rate? I have stood in front of many divers and told them that even if they have a hundreds of dives, but if they haven't dove in a year, do a scuba skills update. So now I am sitting here asking myself if I shouldn't refresh.

I mean I ride a lot, and I feel good on the bike.

However, just as in diving you rarely practice your emergency skills, the same is true on the bike.

I see even the most experienced divers thank me after an update. I didn't teach them much, but reminded them of what they knew and pointed out a few bad habits.

Any thoughts? Might be a fun group activity too.
 
I see ka5ysy is a diver too. What is it with BMW riders and scuba and pilots.
No wonder we all get along so well.

Okay I am way off topic. Back to brakes.....


Yep, Scuba Diver (2000 plus dives, DAN Board member, NAUI Instructor) , Commercial instrument Pilot - 3500 or so hours in Beech equipment, Ham geek, Public Safety diver (23 years worth, 44 recoveries, 1 rescue), police firearms instructor, MSF/Riders Edge instructor. Sometime I even manage to practice law despite rumors to the contrary :)


It is interesting to read that there are so many divers and aviators answering up.


Mmmmm.... I think we all have very low boredom thresholds. Or maybe adult ADHD ? :evil

Anyway, 188233 you are way over-thinking the whole brake issue. Go take the class and ride the darn thing. :thumb


Both Brakes Always :wave
 
I actually hadn't thought about it in years, but the OP started the wheels turning.
Based on the responses, clearly confusion with this bike.

Bike designers say one thing, motorcycle safety folks the opposite.
Both way more qualified than I.

To each his own I guess, so choose your method.

Either with or without the right foot, the best brakes.
My only braking concerns are the non-Bmw's in my group running over me.
We have changed our stagger, BMWs to one side, everyone else to the other side.
 
What is the average retrain rate? I have stood in front of many divers and told them that even if they have a hundreds of dives, but if they haven't dove in a year, do a scuba skills update. So now I am sitting here asking myself if I shouldn't refresh.

I mean I ride a lot, and I feel good on the bike.

However, just as in diving you rarely practice your emergency skills, the same is true on the bike.

I see even the most experienced divers thank me after an update. I didn't teach them much, but reminded them of what they knew and pointed out a few bad habits.

Any thoughts? Might be a fun group activity too.


Interesting parallels you mention. At our dive shop, we quite a few occasional divers who come and play for a minimal tank fee at the large pool we have access to. Generally there are a couple of instructors available to do refreshers on regulator recovery, mask clearing, air sharing etc. to anyone who requests it. It really benefits our divers when they go off to remote dive sites. I also crew on a large dive boat from time to time, and it always amazes me that we will see divers who have not been diving in years come over a hundred miles offshore in advanced to master level diving conditions and jump off the boat without doing a quick pool refresher course. The outcomes are usually ok, but over the years we have had to perform rescues of panicky divers because of it, and no divemaster or instructor ever wants to have to do these. They are very dangerous to all concerned and it is very easy to get hurt or dead if not done correctly as trained and practiced.

On the motorcycle courses, our classes see a reasonable number of riders who take refresher courses, and a growing number of seasoned riders will come and take the ERC every couple of years for the insurance discounts some companies offer. We always get comments that they are glad to have done the updater, and without exception everyone has a good time playing on the range. The ladies are always fun to work with. They actually listen to us instructors and admit that they don't know everything! Just like taking a check ride flying aircraft, a good instructor will see things that the participant is doing that they are unaware of, and suggest corrections. We all develop bad habits over time, so a check ride is a good thing.
 
The ladies are always fun to work with. They actually listen to us instructors and admit that they don't know everything!

That's why I love teaching SCUBA to 10-18 year olds. Contrary to popular belief, kids listen, do what you tell them, and don't have the social baggage. The worst is the alpha male hovering over his wife or SO. I separate them immediately.

I have to believe it is he same in MSF courses. I have much more experience than my wife, she did her BRC with a group of girlfriends, left us guys at home.

Thanks for the discussion. I'm planning my refresher now.
No way to lose, if only practice and spend time on my bike, all is good.
 
That's why I love teaching SCUBA to 10-18 year olds. Contrary to popular belief, kids listen, do what you tell them, and don't have the social baggage. The worst is the alpha male hovering over his wife or SO. I separate them immediately.

I have to believe it is the same in MSF courses. I have much more experience than my wife, she did her BRC with a group of girlfriends, left us guys at home.

Thanks for the discussion. I'm planning my refresher now.
No way to lose, if only practice and spend time on my bike, all is good.

I agree; the kids also listen.

I have had guys hovering over wives and "instructing" in scuba classes and in motorcycle classes. Recently, a guy was watching his wife (who was not doing well as she was scared of the bike and had no clutch control) give her a load of grief about what she was doing wrong every time we would take a break. We ran him off the range for a while, then he came back and had her so upset during a break that she dropped out of the class. Many times the ladies get uptight about having husbands or SO's watching classes, and I generally discourage them from attending. Besides, I hear stuff I never knew, and probably did not need or want to know. Ever ! :laugh:laugh
 
Reading this thread is jaw dropping. I opened the thread because I am also getting back into bike riding after several decades. I plan on picking up my new R1200RT in the spring after spending years in Japan and here on Yamaha's and Honda's. I have learned so very much on this website but now I am learning that, just like me, there are many SCUBA divers who are bike riders. I have my AOW, rescue and nitrox. Living within 45 min of Dutch Springs is a wonderful plus of this sport.

I too plan on taking courses on safe bike riding as soon as possible. I am also a retired volunteer fireman (35 years) and am very safety oriented.

Can't wait to ride in the spring.
 
Reading this thread is jaw dropping. I opened the thread because I am also getting back into bike riding after several decades. I plan on picking up my new R1200RT in the spring after spending years in Japan and here on Yamaha's and Honda's. I have learned so very much on this website but now I am learning that, just like me, there are many SCUBA divers who are bike riders. I have my AOW, rescue and nitrox. Living within 45 min of Dutch Springs is a wonderful plus of this sport.

I too plan on taking courses on safe bike riding as soon as possible. I am also a retired volunteer fireman (35 years) and am very safety oriented.

Can't wait to ride in the spring.

You may be picking up a brand new R1200RT, but you already possess the most important accessory for your motorcycling endeavors - a "safety first mindset."

Enjoy your travels!
 
The big thing with cycle riding is the complacent/comfort zone of "I'm doing ok". Like you said, "I ride a lot", but don't practice my riding skills and emergency skills. THAT is where most riders fall short. We all get easily comfortable and glib in our false security of "I'm a good rider." When actually, ALL of us need a refresh, an update, a kick in the shorts, to revive and remind us it can all end in a matter of seconds of inattention, inability, insecurity of knowing 1st how to AVOID most situations, and then also to really KNOW what to do and HOW to do it when we have to in those seconds of choice.

I feel that is why the MSF is adamant about instructors maintaining bi-yearly skills updates at the very least. Otherwise we fall into the same "I've had the training" attitude.

Yes, kids do listen especially when you involve them AND yourself in their learning. Ladies, for the most part are easier to train. But those a bit later in life, that have never done anything that could hurt them, are the big challenge to train. Funny thing is when a husband/rider and wife/newbie are in the same class. More than once I have seen the wife/newbie do much better than the "experienced" husband/rider. Again, the complacent attitude of "I'm a good rider". THAT only applies within the realm of their actual experience.
 
I plan on picking up my new R1200RT in the spring

Enjoy! I hated mine for the first 10 days. Be patient. The tall first gear and klunky drive train take some adjustment.
After 10 days, it transformed into the best bike I have ever owned.

Plan on a new seat immediately, same as other bikes.

Careful on the brakes at first, using hand brake or both brakes, you will try to throw yourself over the bars the first couple of times.

Happy riding!
 
ALL of us need a refresh, an update, a kick in the shorts, to revive and remind us it can all end in a matter of seconds of inattention

This is going to happen either way, organized training or not. The question is WHERE would you like to have this experience and would you like the opportunity for a do over when you screw it up.

Truth is you can't become a good rider on the range, just as you can't become a good football player in the weight room.

However you guys have reminded me that balance is required. Thanks.
 
I feel that is why the MSF is adamant about instructors maintaining bi-yearly skills updates at the very least. Otherwise we fall into the same "I've had the training" attitude.

My question was how often do MSF instructors recommend retraining to their students?
 
"Truth is you can't become a good rider on the range, just as you can't become a good football player in the weight room."

That comment is true, because the range only provides the opportunity to learn the techniques and procedures. It means nothing if the student/rider never applies it, practices it, becomes proficient with it, and continues to work with the skills to apply it to real world riding. In the realm of rider training in the US, its what we have to work from.

"My question was how often do MSF instructors recommend retraining to their students?"

Me? To my students, ALWAYS, 100%. In the BRC when we complete the class I always say, "now that you've completed the BRC, your training and learning has just begun. You HAVE to continue to keep an open mind to leaning and training, and you have to consider additional training/updates if you really want to become a good lifetime rider."

To the ERC and ARC stduents, same thing; "Take the skills, techniques, strategies, and practice, apply and master them. Then consider additional training to augment and expand that level, always learning more. If not, we are always only the rider we "think" we are in the realm of what we find comfortable."

There are many riders who claim they are "experienced", riding 20 years at about 1500 miles a year only on bright sunny, dry days on familiar roads. Then I have met riders of five years total experience, riding 5,000 to 15,000 miles a year in all conditions, all roads. My bet is the five year rider is a much more capable rider. Takes at least 100,000 miles under your butt of active, varied rding, to count as "experienced". But it also takes training and updates to survive.
 
I do appreciate your input.

This conversation has gone way past brakes and technique.

The combination of you guys have made me ask why I don't practice what I preach as a SCUBA instructor. I think the logic is the same.

Wake up accepted.

So far no luck finding a scheduled ARC near me, but most get posted in the spring.
 
Scuba diving and cycle riding can both kill you easily within 15 minutes of involvement in the activity. So the logic applies to both as to training and ability.

I have all the scuba gear, bought used from a co-worker, but I have not yet gotten the training. NO WAY would I ever consider going under without the training.
 
Scuba diving and cycle riding can both kill you easily within 15 minutes of involvement in the activity. So the logic applies to both as to training and ability.

I have all the scuba gear, bought used from a co-worker, but I have not yet gotten the training. NO WAY would I ever consider going under without the training.

Good for you for not trying to use the equipment before getting trained and certified. Do not even play with the gear in a pool, as the depth between surface and 33 feet is where the most danger to blow a lung or have an embolism exists. People have died in 12 foot deep pools playing with scuba tanks. You will learn about this in your classes. Diving is a fun, relatively safe activity so long as you pay attention to what you are doing and plan your dive, but can be terribly unforgiving to carelessness. Just like riding a motorcycle.


Isn't this a great, diversified group with a wide range of expertise ? :clap
 
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Who woulda thought that my first post ever on this forum would result in 39+ responses in just three days! Gotta love it. Oh yeah, and I've learned a little too. :clap
 
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