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Thread: AAA Warning on Ethanol

  1. #76
    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    North Ridgeville OH
    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    1) Have you ever heard the Nursery Tale of Chicken Little.
    Sure - but what point are you trying to make?

    E10 has caused people's poor fuel storage habbits to come back and bite them in many cases. The things you could get away with when dealing with straight gasoline, lead to failures with E10. E15 will make this issue worse. There are engines which will run poorly and and some may be damaged on E15. I'm not saying it is the end of the world, but it will cause issues with some existing engines. Also, continuing to increase ethanol in pump fuel without making a corresponding chemistry change in certification fuel while decreasing the allowable exhaust emissions will lead to increased product costs. Eventually, we will be looking at closed loop fuel injection on a walk behind mower and the corresponding price.

  2. #77
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Central PA
    Quote Originally Posted by rxcrider View Post
    decreasing the allowable exhaust emissions will lead to increased product costs. Eventually, we will be looking at closed loop fuel injection on a walk behind mower and the corresponding price.
    Trust me. some smart domestic or foreign folks will make a product that Walmart will sell you at a price that matches the size of your wallet. Today, most all walk behind mowers are made by MTD or Basco (Snapper). In the case of MTD, they contract manufacture for several brands beyond their own in-house brands. I can buy the same product from Deere, Husqvarna (Electrolux), Cadet and in many cases, on cheaper stuff, Craftsman. Typically, you can buy either a Honda or Briggs engine on the same deck, just by switching brand names.

    Not that the Briggs engines aren't good, but I doubt that the Honda engineers will have any problems meeting the challenge of a new fuel blend. Remember the CVCC was impressive and was found in a relatively cheap car.
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
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  3. #78
    Registered User
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    Sep 2005
    Eastern KY
    A ban on "recreational mowing" would be a starter move...

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Folsom CA.
    I have several old motorcycles, and lawn equipment like most of you. And because ethanol wrecks old carbs plastic floats, fuel lines, collects water and other probblems, I use race gas or aircraft gas in my old bikes and lawn equipment.

    I know it a availability issue with some and cost as well, but Amal floats are $35 each and some not available at any price.

    The newer fuel injected cars and motorcycles seen to have fewer issues, but at 15% some vehicles may not run well at all, it makes them run very lean, not good for the air cooled ones.

    Just my 2 cents, I don't know what there is to do about it, the corn lobby is very strong.

  5. #80
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Chambersburg Pa.


    To anyone in or about, or passing through Chambersburg Pa , the Gulf station at the intersection of Wayne Ave and Exit 14 of I81 has an ethanol free pump. Yes, it costs more. Really anxious to try it in the bikes.
    I have met the enemy, and he is us
    2011 R 1200 RT

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by rxcrider View Post
    Components which were designed to survive for a reasonable period of time in E10 may fail sooner in E15.

    Water absorption can occur before you pump a drop into your tank and no fuel system is isolated from the atmosphere. If it was, you'd have a vaccuum in your tank as soon as you started riding. Outside air filling the void in the tank as fuel is consumed may be filtered through a carbon canister, but that doesn't remove humidity.

    If you have a fuel injected engine with a closed loop system that was designed to run on E10, it can probably accomodate E15 without too much trouble. If the design was marginal and you were maxing out the trim, fuel injector flow or pump capacity with E10, E15 may push you over the edge. Open loop and carbureted engines may require modification to run properly on E15. Unfortunately, those modifications may be illegal.

    Fuel pumps, injectors and intake valves are lubricated by fuel. Ethanol provides less lubrication than other gasoline components and may reduce component life as the percentage is increased.

    E15 isn't an absolute evil, but it will cause issues for some engines. Don't assume that if an engine was certified to run on E10 that it was optimized for it. It may have already been on the edge at 10% and 15% ethanol may push it over.
    The traction this thread has shown may have as much to do with the amounts of ethanol going into us around this time of year as is going into our vehicles.

    You're right, I mispoke. The fuel system is not airtight, but I stand by my claim (and you don't actually contradict it) that the amounts of water taken up by ethanol in our fuels under normal circumstances is insignificant. If someone makes the claim that ethanol in our fuel hurts longevity in any way I would ask to see some firm evidence beyond the anedotal. Ofcourse I'm speaking of post-ethanol era vehicles.

    As for gasoline being a lubricant there may be additives in it that help lubricate some parts, but the question is whether the presence of ethanol at these relatively small amounts will degrade that. Hard to know at this point, but it obviously doesn't at 10% so how likely is it to happen at 15%.

    If someones fuel system was already in marginal condition for whatever reason and it failed after a tankful of E15, you can be sure they'd probably blame the EPA. But would that blame be justified.

    I'm in no way in favor of any ethanol in gasoline and even this small increase means my gasoline dollar goes from being worth 90 cents to being worth 85 cents. I just don't think it's likely to affect our vehicles as some have suggested.

    And...oh yeah, I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in anything the manufacturers say until they put it in enforceble (and challengeable) language in their warranties. I don't doubt for a minute that they are above using this issue as a way to avoid honoring defective fuel system warranty issues that have nothing whatever to do with ethanol.

    Happy new year all.

    '06 BMW R1200RT
    '74 Moto-Guzzi 850-T

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