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Helmets won't save you in 30+ MPH crashes

My cousin went to work on an ambulance when he first returned from Vietnam(where he was a medic) & after a short while on that job he told me that "seatbelts obviously don't save lives as the occupants cannot jump from the car in a wreck". Methinks he belongs to the same club as the coroner the OP makes reference to?
The real question here becomes - Do coroners watch the liberal media or not...:bow

moderator , where are you?:bolt
 
You can find the most detailed data on that statistic in the European "MAIDS" study; which is a recent in-depth study of motorcycle accidents: You can access the data tables here: http://www.maids-study.eu/data_tables.html (You may have to create an account to log into the actual crash study pages).

However, these are stats based on the European riding environment, so the data may or may not be valid for the U.S.

DOT studies say about 27 percent of motorcycle operators killed in crashes were speeding. (Source: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810834.PDF)

I do a lot safety-related work and research in the industry, so here are some more stats to think about:

- The most common location for crashes involving a motorcycle and another motor vehicle (4 or more wheels) is at intersections. The usual scenario is the other vehicle turning left into the motorcyclist's right-of-way. We probably all know this one... (Source: MSF)

- Here's one you may not know. Approximately 40% of all motorcycle fatalities occur because the bike ran off the road. The most common location for this is in a curve/corner. The usual culprit: too much speed. (Source: MSF)

- According to another recent European study, if you do crash, the chances are 62.8% that your initial head impact will occur somewhere in the front or side facial region.The study goes on to say 34.6% of those total first impacts will be in the chin bar area. Kind of makes a point when you think about how many riders wear open (3/4) helmets or less, doesn't it?. (Source: http://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=1124566)

There are lots of other, sobering statistics out there and a little research will find them. Do some reading and you won't get on a bike again without ATGATT.

All excellent resouces to consider.

Here in Wisconsin, the percentage of "running off the road in a curve" incidents is even higher than 40%, with a frequent dose of alcohol mixed in as well. We have our own 'demons' to work on reducing here in the Badger State.

As for the initial poster's inquiry, your best bet is still to suit up ATGATT. Many factors can be introduced into the 'survival equation' of a motorcycle crash, i.e. road surface, victim's health, age and level of physical fitness, angle of contact with fixed objects, and of course velocity dynamics.

I've seen low-speed crashes kill and high-speed crashes with minimal injuries. Not an exact science, so again - "dress for the slide as well as the ride."
 
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okay. if you read his entire quote, you realize what Cook is actually saying, which is that above 30 mph you're most likely to die from internal injuries, rathe than a head injury. given the number of potential objects one can hit, get impaled on, slammed against.. it kinda makes sense. cherry-picking his quote to sound like he is saying "don't bother with a helmet" is really pretty lame- the guy sounds like he is actually more of an anti-motorcycle guy than an anti-helmet guy. quoting someone out of context sure changes the meaning, doesn't it?

Why let facts get in the way of another perfectly good, semi-hysterical helmet rant?
 
Exactly. Not an exact science, but at the same time when you listen to his entire comment I understand where he was trying to go with his comments.

Yes, you can fly off your motorcycle at 50 MPH and roll on the dirt next to the ditch and be relatively fine. But you can also hit a truck at 30 MPH and die. If you believe his comment to mean -when your head or body hits an object when traveling over 30 MPH you stand a good chance of dying, then I agree with him.

If you think you're invincible because you're wearing a full face helmet, you're fooling yourself. Too many variables involved in a motorcycle crash, many more than in a car crash. I investigated one M/C crash where the kid struck the concrete Jersey barrier on a curve. His helmeted head looked perfect but there was one minor problem- his lower torso and legs were lying 75 feet away.
 
Now where did this coroner say that if you are going above 30mph and you are in an accident it is SAFER NOT TO WEAR A HELMET?

All I got from it was that above 30 mph there is no guaranteed safety from wearing a helmet...which sounds reasonable to me.

/Guenther
 
Now where did this coroner say that if you are going above 30mph and you are in an accident it is SAFER NOT TO WEAR A HELMET?

All I got from it was that above 30 mph there is no guaranteed safety from wearing a helmet...which sounds reasonable to me.

/Guenther

I would suggest there is no "guaranteed" safety at any speed.. If the stars align wrong, you're gonna die or least be injured.
 
There is another good reason for ATGATT besides mortality. My buddy crashed on the street at around 45 mph. He slid at least 50 feet. It even abraded a hole in his leather riding boots.

He was wearing jeans. His knee lost skin right down to the bone, and will never be the same.

His helmet took a nasty abrasive slide that, had it been his face, he'd likely wish to be dead.

All his motorcycle specific gear did its job and protected his skin. If he'd worn his riding pants, he'd have walked away with bruises.

kaw_crash001.jpg


kaw_crash010.jpg


kaw_crash015.jpg
 
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This begs the question; at what speed do most motorcycle accidents happen ?

Statistically, most accidents are less than 30mph. The really high speed stuff is an outlier. Most fatalities are also alcohol
related.

A couple of Trauma Docs I know, who also ride, make the point that helmets save lives in given situations. Of course having a helmet on or not, when the head and body get separated, doesn't work too well at any speed.

Going "splat" with or without a helmet also ruins your day at fairly low speeds due to the kinetic energy that is involved that must be dissipated. (Ek = Mass x Velocity Squared / 2). The energy climbs to huge numbers at normal highway speeds.

T
Seriously, it would seem that helmet issues aren't exactly a political discussion.

Politicians never lie. Just ask them ...
 
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Here in Wisconsin, the percentage of "running off the road in a curve" incidents is even higher than 40%, with a frequent dose of alcohol mixed in as well. We have our own 'demons' to work on reducing here in the Badger State.

From what I recall from studying motorcycle accident studies, fully half of motorcycle fatalities in rural areas are single-vehicle accidents. It's less than half in urban areas. Those Wisconsin findings make sense.

Another big finding of MAIDS, Hurt Report, and others is that "obstructed vision" plays a major role in motorcycle accidents.

Don't just look for obvious hazards, ie other vehicles, look even more closely for accident-producing scenarios: other vehicles whose drivers can't see you because of obstructions like other vehicles. While you would never pull out onto the road if you couldn't see because your vision is blocked, there are plenty of idiots who will.

Harry
 
I remember rolling down the street sans motorcycle and thinking (Ihope the cage following me stops before running over me). This accident taught me all I needed to know about ATGATT. I was wearing Levi's, HD boots, gloves, long sleeve shirt, and a 3/4 helmet. I suffered abrasions to both knees and both elbows, the palm of one glove was almost worn through, and broken toes (big & small on the left foot). I never thought my head touched the road but deep scrape marks on the back of my helmet told another story. I now wear a suitable riding jacket with shoulder, back, and elbow padding plus steel toed boots. A modular helmet in warm weather and a full face model in the cold. Kevlar lined jeans or padded riding pants are also part of my riding gear. I have no doubt that a full on impact with a solid object can/will cause significant injury or death but, now firmly beleive that sliding/rolling injuries can greatly reduced just by wearing decent gear. Being alert to impending problems is the first and most important step in avoiding accidents, the proper gear is needed to minimize damage to yourself if things just go wrong. Murphy's Law is a constant in all accidents. RIDE SAFE
 
Hmm, a helmet won't save you at 30+?

Guess somebody forgot to tell me 15 years ago when a cage driver knocked me off of my Ducati at 55+.

:drink

PS. After an exam at an ER, I went home under my own power 2 hours later.
 
Subject-illiterate coroner making ill-informed statements.

Anyone who would cite his comments as validation to not wear a helmet should, in the event of an accident, expect unwelcome consequences.
 
Lyell Cook is on Facebook if anyone wants to tell him that he's a bit off base. I think I will send him a note and direct him to this thread.
 
I would suggest there is no "guaranteed" safety at any speed.. If the stars align wrong, you're gonna die or least be injured.


I have known a couple of folks that slipped and fell at a stoplight, and got run over by the tractor trailer next to them. Can also think of more that one person who got serious injuries or killed when they fell in a parking lot or fell from a stationary bike.

By the same token I have known (and been one of) those folks that took an impressive tumble and got up and walked away from it.

The worst accident that I ever had on two wheels was during a bicycle race. Given a choice of hitting the highway at 30mph wearing lycra shorts or 60mph wearing Kevlar boots and a protective jacket, I will go with Option #2.
 
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