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What an RT mechanic said

Sportrider

New member
I was getting a tire changed at the dealer recently and began questioning the mechanic about the most common problems he sees on the r1150rt. His shop has the CHP contract, so he services literally hundreds of the bikes each year. Bottom line, he said, is change the fluids, especially the brake fluid, and they'll run forever. He said concern about clutch spline lubrication is unfounded. In the hundreds of bikes he's worked on he never once performed the service. Failure, he said, is rare.
I asked him why people on BMWMOA talk so much about it and he said it's pure parnoia. Don't believe what you read on the Internet, he said.
He didn't strike me as a company apologist. So what's up with the divergent opinion?
 
My mechanic has pretty much said the same thing about oilheads.

Remember, people on the internet rarely post in technical sections about how NOTHING'S wrong. There was a requirement for regular spline lubrication on airheads.
 
His shop has the CHP contract, so he services literally hundreds of the bikes each year. Bottom line, he said, is change the fluids, especially the brake fluid, and they'll run forever. He said concern about clutch spline lubrication is unfounded. In the hundreds of bikes he's worked on he never once performed the service. Failure, he said, is rare.
All the CHP BMW's are run thru one shop? :scratch
Ask him how many miles does CHP keep one in the fleet? Curious as those who have had failiures will say not rare to them. Some are not total failures and often just poor shifting behavior. I bet under 50K they are being replaced if the same formula the city I worked for is used. A combo of years/miles. The 1150's are disappearing from the local fleets...Hondas back in the mix with 12RT's here.

The shops with police 1150RT's around here were replacing clutches often until the fellas figured out they were not wet clutches or Harleys.
 
I know that the RTP bikes in Overland Park, Kansas get a new clutch every 30K to 40K or so. Clutch wear is a hazard of cop bike use. With a new clutch comes a new clutch hub of course, and new lube when they put it in. Now I wonder why cop bikes don't need periodic spline lube. Geee, I wonder ....
 
Well, I suppose they mean CHP district. Not the whole state. And it wouldn't be hundreds of them, but many of them more than once.
I didn't think the CHP had any 1150s left. I thought it was only 1200s now. But what do I know.
And I suppose clutches won't go out much in the first 50k miles. But if you are near 100k, can't you expect a clutch to be about done?
dc
 
Having worked 30 years in police fleet service , repair....I largely agree.

Occasionally a particular motorcycle might be problem laden....but most of them are subject to the officer that rides them and his 'habits'.
I had some guys that their motors seldom needed anything more than fluids, tires,,the usual....other guys could ruin an anvil with a rubber mallet.....
 
Having worked 30 years in police fleet service , repair....I largely agree.

Occasionally a particular motorcycle might be problem laden....but most of them are subject to the officer that rides them and his 'habits'.
I had some guys that their motors seldom needed anything more than fluids, tires,,the usual....other guys could ruin an anvil with a rubber mallet.....

I think this is accurate. Back in my previous life I was a Service Manager for a British Leyland auto dealer. Certain customers could be relied upon to have problems; others, hardly anything. I believe much of it was poor habits.
 
This would be a more informed discussion with the numbers.

How many Oilheads in service?

How many miles per year?

What is the wear rate by model and year?

How many catastrophic failures per year?

Etc. ...

With all we know, it seems that periodic wear inspection is warranted.

On a different note, it seems to me that 100% of in tank hoses are going to fail. There's nothing unusual about my 8 year old 27,000 mile bike. The in-tank hoses were shot.
 
Q if you can pls

is clutch wear more related to the number of uses/shifts or to the manner in which you shift?

i.e. smoothly, quickly, preloading the shifter, or "dragging" it and othefr variations on bad gear changes.
 
I think the (maybe obvious) thing to remember is to be completely off the throttle when you pull that clutch lever.
 
is clutch wear more related to the number of uses/shifts or to the manner in which you shift?

i.e. smoothly, quickly, preloading the shifter, or "dragging" it and othefr variations on bad gear changes.

Both. As it relates to police bikes, training teaches the officers to use slight throttle and to modulate slow speed maneuvers by slipping the clutch. It is a very useful skill doing U turns on narrow streets, etc. but it takes its toll on clutches.

Old fashioned rally field events can do the same thing. Slow races and other such events are hard on clutches. I used to need to replace the clutch in Voni's R80/7 every fall following a season of maybe a dozen rallies with field events because it wouldn't last another year.
 
I think the (maybe obvious) thing to remember is to be completely off the throttle when you pull that clutch lever.

I disagree. You want to match engine rpm and transmission input shaft rpm which will minimize any slipping action in the clutch. You don't do this dumping the engine speed back down too far. Just up a little on downshifts, and down a little on upshifts.
 
Precision riding as taught in enforcement riding involves a lot of feathering the clutch. The clutch is not fully seated in tight maneuvering to allow better control over the bike. That translates to additional wear but in reality for every day enforcement riding is not that big of a deal. It's when you are in training or practicing for Police Motor Rodeo competition that it really wears on the bike. It's because you are doing far far more of that feathering in those events.

It has been my experience that the rider determines the longevity of the bike. How smooth they make the shifts and general operation of the machine will go a long way to make it last longer.

I used to enjoy doing the practice and rodeo competitions. as a result I put more wear on the clutch pack (Kawasaki KZ1000P bike) than I normally would. Having said that I had only one bike in over a decade of riding require a clutch replacement. That particular bike had three of the 5 friction plates mounted backwards so that I was only getting 2 plates operating properly with the other disks. I still rode that bike for 2 years and a couple rodeo's before it started to slip in operation. Other guys I rode with would burn out a clutch every other year even without doing rodeo work.
 
I disagree. You want to match engine rpm and transmission input shaft rpm which will minimize any slipping action in the clutch. You don't do this dumping the engine speed back down too far. Just up a little on downshifts, and down a little on upshifts.

Makes sense, thanks Paul. But I did read that in some publication, the stay off the throttle thing.
 
Thanks for the comments on the original post. To answer a few questions, this shop has the contract for the north coast of California only. But that's a pretty big contract that includes local police. The mechanic said the R1150RT is being phased out by the 1200 but many units remain in service. They live a hard life yet suffer no major failures, he said. Don't know the clutch change interval. That's a good
question for another time.
 
makes sense

I disagree. You want to match engine rpm and transmission input shaft rpm which will minimize any slipping action in the clutch. You don't do this dumping the engine speed back down too far. Just up a little on downshifts, and down a little on upshifts.

Thanx, Paul. I became particularly curious when the guy who runs the indep shop that I sometimes frequent looked at my clutch en route to an input spline lube. I'd just bought this 2000 1100RT w just shy of 60 K on the clock and wanted to see what I'd really gotten myself into. He measured and said the clutch was about 50% worn. I chose not to replace it, and hoped i could get at least another 30 thousand miles out of it. He also said that he'd recently inspected another 2000 RT w about 100 K on it and the clutch showed virtually no wear whatsoever. i attributed it to the fact that owner was a long-time Chi- Region member with lots of miles and lots of experience, and therefore really healthy shifting habits.

Who knows?? maybe the original owner of mine was stuck in daily Chicago rush hour traffic both ways. Maybe the other guy's 100 k was all long days on the slab at 80 mph out in KS and NE with no good reason to slow down.

Don't mean to hijack but I'm trying to learn about how these things work. thanx to all for the responses.
 
I agree on the minimal clutch action. Oilheads need the consistent momentum of the spinning engine between shifts. I use maybe 1/4 travel of my clutch lever, and almost no throttle "chop" between shifts and my RS shifts much smoother that way. I get normal clutch wear too.
 
I was getting a tire changed at the dealer recently and began questioning the mechanic about the most common problems he sees on the r1150rt. His shop has the CHP contract, so he services literally hundreds of the bikes each year. Bottom line, he said, is change the fluids, especially the brake fluid, and they'll run forever. He said concern about clutch spline lubrication is unfounded. In the hundreds of bikes he's worked on he never once performed the service. Failure, he said, is rare.
I asked him why people on BMWMOA talk so much about it and he said it's pure parnoia. Don't believe what you read on the Internet, he said.
He didn't strike me as a company apologist. So what's up with the divergent opinion?

My never-in-police-service 2002 RTP has eaten two clutch input shafts - the first at 33,000 miles and the second at 72,000 miles.

Tell your guy who says it never happens to please get in touch with me. I'll show him two enormous invoices to prove it does. :deal :deal
 
My never-in-police-service 2002 RTP has eaten two clutch input shafts - the first at 33,000 miles and the second at 72,000 miles.

Tell your guy who says it never happens to please get in touch with me. I'll show him two enormous invoices to prove it does. :deal :deal

with that rate of shaft failure (33K for first one and 41K for 2nd) i would be highly suspicious of a misalignment between engine and trans housing.
ever have that looked at?
 
with that rate of shaft failure (33K for first one and 41K for 2nd) i would be highly suspicious of a misalignment between engine and trans housing.
ever have that looked at?

I'm convinced that's what's wrong with my bike, and that's why there are so many anecdotal reports of clutch input shafts failing. It's quite obvious that a certain % of Oilheads has a misalingment between the engine casing and the transmission housing, but BMW refuses to acknowledge this issue, and of course refuses to remedy the problem.

If I had an extra $10,000 laying around, I'd hire an engineer and a machine shop to get the misalignment quantified and fixed - but since I don't have those resources, I'll just put in a new clutch input shaft every 30-40k miles and let BMW keep telling me my bike doesn't have a defect that originated in Berlin.
 
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