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The Wethead has arrived....

This is similar to what they said about Ford when they decided to go with the Ecoboost V6 engine in their best selling F-150. People said a V6 couldn't take the loads and that pick-up owners would not buy it over the traditional V8. The engine has proven to be very reliable and they can't keep up with demand for the engine. I think 40%+ of the F-150s sold are sold with the Ecoboost.


Regarding water leaks. From what I understand, they are replacing the oil cooling with water cooling. Why would water be more likely to leak than oil? Water leaks have not been an issue with ATVs that converted from air to water cooling several years ago (and they are abused far worse than the GS)? Water leaks have not been a problem on cars, trucks, jeeps, tractors, etc. that have been water cooled for over a century.

I have and have had John Deere lawn equipment. 3 were air cooled and two were water cooled (Kawasaki). The air cooled engines used a little oil over the summer but neither of the water cooled engines used any oil the entire summer. Water cooling allows closer tolerances because the heat range is not as great.

Congratulations on your good luck, but you might find the weather to be a little different in the Southwest and outside Marion Va.

Google "water leaks motorcycles" and you get 6,500,000 hits.

E.
 
I am hung up on the wet clutch. I know most motorbikes now have them. But, one of the reasons the boxer engine enjoyed a typical longer life than other types of engines on bikes was because of the dry clutch. Now you will have clutch contaminants in your engine oil. This will shorten the life of the engine.

Paul, anyone with real-world mechanical knowledge? Can you confirm I am correct?
 
I am hung up on the wet clutch. I know most motorbikes now have them. But, one of the reasons the boxer engine enjoyed a typical longer life than other types of engines on bikes was because of the dry clutch. Now you will have clutch contaminants in your engine oil. This will shorten the life of the engine.

Doesn't seem to have hurt a GoldWing with 162k miles on it.....

" It also has had only routine maintenance:.... Oil change & filter regularly, coolant and brake fluid changed when needed, final drive oil changed and checked periodically, timing belts several times, new tires ever year on rear, every year and a half on front, battery every three years and brake pads when needed, water pump and fan switch once, thermostat twice, spark plugs twice, and we recently replaced the plug wires. Last but not least was replacing the stator, which is normal for a GL 1200 Goldwing. The stator and voltage regulator was replaced the following year after we purchased it. My husband changed the wiring system to his liking so we no longer have to worry about the charging system in the future. The only non-routine repairs were the turn signal relay that went out two years ago, and the window on the brake reservoir started to leak two years ago and had to be repaired."

Read more: http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/m...gl-1200-goldwing-aspencade.aspx#ixzz28S1aFlZe
 
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I am hung up on the wet clutch. I know most motorbikes now have them. But, one of the reasons the boxer engine enjoyed a typical longer life than other types of engines on bikes was because of the dry clutch. Now you will have clutch contaminants in your engine oil. This will shorten the life of the engine.

Paul, anyone with real-world mechanical knowledge? Can you confirm I am correct?

Doesn't seem to have bothered this CBR600 with over 230,000 miles either, on the original clutch!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZUTfpw8NUM&feature=plcp
 
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Well, this is encouraging news. We'll see how they do. I am sure that changing oil will become more of a factor than before. I actually change every 3k or so.
 
Congratulations on your good luck, but you might find the weather to be a little different in the Southwest and outside Marion Va.

Google "water leaks motorcycles" and you get 6,500,000 hits.

E.

I did a Google search and most of the results aren't applicable.
 
I am hung up on the wet clutch. I know most motorbikes now have them. But, one of the reasons the boxer engine enjoyed a typical longer life than other types of engines on bikes was because of the dry clutch. Now you will have clutch contaminants in your engine oil. This will shorten the life of the engine.

Paul, anyone with real-world mechanical knowledge? Can you confirm I am correct?

I'm not at all sure what the connection would be between clutch type and engine longevity. Provided the clutch releases fully when disengaged and doesn't slip when engaged I don't see any connection to engine life.

The one absolutely huge benefit to a wet clutch is that it should eliminate the problematic need to do periodic clutch hub spline lubes. They are annoying on the Airheads, a little more trouble on the classic K bikes, and a monumental issue for Oil/Camhead boxers. Owners of these bikes get to choose:
a. give the dealers about $2,000
b. spend a couple of days doing it themselves
c. ignore the issue and get rid of the bike before the splines fail
(which of course means the next owner gets a $2,000 surprise)

The "new" K1200/1300 upright fours, and the F bikes have wet clutches and I have not heard of any significant clutch issues.
 
periodic clutch hub spline lubes, Paul how many miles is periodic. My oilhead is coming up on 73K. Is this a winter project in the makings. :scratch

Yes if it were my bike. To be perfectly safe I like a 40,000 miles interval. I've seen them worn badly at 50K and worn some but still OK at 60K.

It is a pain, but the downside to not doing it is that eventually it is the same amount of labor plus several hundred dollars in parts, plus more labor to replace the transmission input shaft and clutch disk.
 
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Paul Glaves,

Please buy a 2013 R1200GS so we can get your maintenance and repair advice and instructions.

I am first on the list at Gulf Coast BMW for a 2013 R1200GS and have decided to keep my 2000 R1150GS that just turned over 24,000 miles. I had a glance at the dealer's NADA book while I was setting up my deal and it felt like a mule kick to the gut when I saw what the market thinks of my beloved machine; I think much, much more of it than that.

See you at the next BMW Club of Houston meeting.
 
I'm not at all sure what the connection would be between clutch type and engine longevity. Provided the clutch releases fully when disengaged and doesn't slip when engaged I don't see any connection to engine life.

I understand what is being mentioned, not hard to understand, this has been the case for many manufacturers for decades. It's not really what BMW is "known" for until the wedge came out though.
The issue that is trying to "made an issue of" is the clutch wear particles being deposited into the engine since it is all unitized. Unitized, imagine that, BMW has finally caught up to 1950s Harley technology and British 1960s technology!
Last development I heard of is the manufacturer has installed a filter of some sort designed to remove these pesky contaminates from the engine oil. Next thing you know the manufacturer will determine that the intake air might also contain contaminates of some sort which will also require filtering out. Yeesh, these engineers really have to make sure they have work of some sort to do.

Gilly
 
Water leaks?

My 1988 K75 has never dripped a drop of water in the 24 years I have owned it. A few drops of oil, but never water. And the radiator still looks new inside. I think BMW knows how to do water cooling.
 
From the BMW PressClub release:
"Optimised handling qualities are the result of refined master geometric chassis data, and a longer swingarm provides further improved traction - especially when riding over rough terrain."

I am curious about a couple of items here.

- Has anyone seen the chassis geometry numbers?
In particular I am curious if the increase in swing arm length also means an increase in wheel base? Or did the redesign of clutch and transmission allow for a more compact unit and thus a longer swing arm with the same wheelbase?

- For those that do ride off tarmac, what are you thoughts on this and what it would mean to you?

- For the engineers in the crowd or more versed on rear end geometry; what impact will the increased length potentially have on the strains and various forces put on the final u-joint and final drive.
 
Paul,
I'd appreciate YOUR analysis of the difference/benefits of the old vs. new rather than a restatement of the BMW promo...

Well, since the bike just debuted and the press kit was a few hours old when I posted that it seemed newsworthy at the time. Like most of us, I have not seen the bike, touched the bike, or of course ridden the bike.

Purely from an observational perspective there are some elements of the design that I see as leaps forward.

1. The wet clutch at the front of the engine means the bike doesn't have to be half disassembled to replace a clutch and there should be no need for clutch hub spline lubrication.

2. The top to bottom mixture flow with fewer bends in the intake/exhaust path should improve efficiency.

3. Cruise control is a big plus.

4. I think the water cooling is a big plus.

There are some things I wonder about.

1. Cylinders cast as part of the block. Would I have to split the cases to replace worn rings?

2. Is the permanent magnet alternator as prone to stator problems as the F twins seem to be?

3. Will there be clearance to do that simple up-front clutch replacement, or does the whole front end need to come off to remove the front cover?

These are just top-of-the-head observations. Once I see the bike, and once a bunch of folks get a bunch of miles, we'll know more.
 
Paul,
Those are interesting insights. As you point out, only time will tell. Unfortunately, its the buyers that will be the beta testers.
 
Paul,
Those are interesting insights. As you point out, only time will tell. Unfortunately, its the buyers that will be the beta testers.

That is always true. I do have to say that we have had good results with 1st year bikes. My original K75T was a first year bike, albeit following a couple years of the K100. My F650 Funduro was a 1st year bike and Voni's R1100RS was a first year Oilhead - very first year like one of the first 6 into the U.S.

The K75 was almost trouble free in its 370,000 miles. The R1100RS had an early transmission issue - replaced under warranty - but that was about it for "issues" in its 360,000 miles.

But I do understand the beta bike issue - we just haven't been bitten (yet).
 
There are some things I wonder about.

1. Cylinders cast as part of the block. Would I have to split the cases to replace worn rings?

I'm shocked to learn that ... and it seems like a dumb idea. :scratch It seems to negate at least one of the inherent advantages of the boxer engine.

I like the idea of the traditional boxers where u can pull a jug in a jiffy, just like an old air cooled VW or Lycoming / Continental aircraft motor.
 
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