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difficulty seating tire bead

jforgo

New member
I am fitting a rear 400x18 Michelin Pilot Activ, with new tube, on my rear snowflake. I have everything lubed up with actual tire miounting lube, have taken it over 65 psi 4 times tonite, and the bead will not completely seat.
I am going to try leaving it out in the sun to make it more flexible, but really, this seems ridiculous. I can only change tires in the hot part of the year? Does type of tube matter? Are Michelin Pilots just a PITA? Are tubelsss tires fitted with tubes generally a PITA? Is there some technique which has escaped me? or??
 
For me tubless on tube are generally more difficult than proper tube tire but should seat
The problem is usually getting the bead off the rim for a roadside repair rather than inflation

consider carefully the tube itself and the thickened area near the base of the stem - often folks will stick the stem through the wheel and tighten the nut to hold the stem in place before inflating the tire.
This sometimes causes the tube to get between the bead and the rim in the stem area. Better way is to just start nut on stem and push stem into wheel as far as it will go while inflating

Usually when a proper size tire will not pop out on bead the tube is folded under bead or this fat area near the stem is in the way - this is more critical with tubeless on tube than real tube tire

The snowflake wheel does not seem to have as deep a center trough in is as many steel rims and for me is a little more difficult than old style wheels
 
You did clean the rubber from the seat area of the rim, right? Fill it with 60psi and let it sit in the sun. Bounce it as Brewmeister suggested. Tubeless tires have stiffer sidewalls and can be a bear to seat.
 
The pilot active tires are a MAJOR PIA to mount. I had a very hard time with mine a few months ago. I found that the strap on the outside of the tire helps, make sure the valve is not in the stem, and you need to be able to inflate the tire extemely rapidly. It took me multiple times to finally seat the tire. I also used a large amount of tire lube. I think i ended up putting in about 80-90 lbs of air before it finally seated.
 
I broke two straps trying to seat a difficult tire. Bike size compressors are useless. Use soapy water as a lubricant, take the valve stem out, let it sit in the sun for awhile. Use full size compressor and inflate till it pops. I've gone to 90 pounds with some tires. If bouncing works that's just dumb luck.
 
A friend was badly injured when a ratchet strap he was using to re rim a tire split/broke/popped when the tire was being inflated. The buckle caught him in the eye. Enough said about that. It was not a motorcycle, but I think it is a good warning.

I too tried to mount a pilot-activ 325x19 front this spring. I finally gave up & took it to a shop.

In the past I have had some luck in your situation "bouncing" the tire & wheel carefully on the shop floor.
 
Like Tonyc said... go to 80 to 90 psi. I go to at least 80psi on every tire I mount. If your worried about the higher psi's, then take it to a shop.:thumb
 
PS another good trick is to remove the valve core. the air will go in much faster. after the tire seats then let the air back out and replace the valve core. tire will stay seated!!!
 
Of course, with tubeless tires, the ole WD-40 and a flame will do the job every time.

See YouTube for Redneck method.
 
now what?

OK, I put it in the sun. I lubed it all up again. Inflate to 90, nothing. Bounced it around, still no seat. Came back to put in window, tube blew. Now what?
 
Try putting a ratchet strap around the outside diameter of the tire snugly when not inflated then put in air and also don't have the valve core in the tube untill /when the bead seats.lube the rim center not where the tire seats on the rim. look up on the no-mar web site for great video's of putting on various tires/rims and where to lubricate the tire/rim.Also try bouncing the whole tire/rim assembly carefully with air in the tire(core back in the valve stem)not yet seated around the parimeter of the tire then deflate and reinflate to see if it will then seat,stop if your not having any luck and have a beer,then it will work out better after a break time.liberal use of strong language may help.

Of course, with tubeless tires, the ole WD-40 and a flame will do the job every time.

See YouTube for Redneck method.

I used to use starting fluid to seat ATV tires. :thumb It launches them a good two feet in the air. Very amusing, though you didn't want your customers seeing you do this.
 
I've had this problem once or twice and what I ended up doing was using a trigger clamp to twist the tire, that is pull out the section where the bead wasn't seating. All that while it was well lubed and being inflated.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=31575

Last year, I spent some time really cleaning the inside of my rims. Amazing how much crap was was in there.

This year, no problem mounting Avon Roadrunners. Not sure if there is a connection.

Regards,

Barron
 
OK, I put it in the sun. I lubed it all up again. Inflate to 90, nothing. Bounced it around, still no seat. Came back to put in window, tube blew. Now what?

This usually only happens to me a few hours before I'm leaving for a few thousand mile ride. At some point, you have to take it to a shop, yes? You've been at it a few days now.

Just make sure they tell you what the fix was.
 
It seems clear by now this tire in not suitable - and even if you mount it you will never be able to
do a roadside repair - so quit before you hurt yourself and get a properly sized tire

You should be able to mount and dismount with the tire spoons in the standard tool kit and inflate enough with the stock bike tire pump to drive to the nearest gas station - if you cannot do at least that then don't use that tire - your riding buddies will not invite you along on the next adventure if you cannot fix your own stuff because you deliberately installed wrong parts that defeat the original design
 
Not to mention some of the incredible loads put on this rim...seems quite a bit higher than I've heard anyone has gone or should go to. IMO, I wouldn't go over 60 psi. Then again, I don't mount my own tires and have no idea what the shop does out of my view! :dunno
 
go to NAPA get real ruglide. Mix and use. Inflate to no more than 60 psi and let it sit in the sun. I have heard tires pop an hour later.

Rod
 
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions!

Since I tend to be tenacious once I start something, I had one more idea before going to shop. I had noticed these are very stiff tires, even when left in the sun. So the sidewalls were not so close to the rim when mounted. I wondered if the little tube had too hard a time pushing the bead over all the way. I had difficulty with an Avon due to deformation from shipping and handling, which made one section extra narrow. So I thought to spread the tire a bit. Either put both sides on outside of rim, if possible. Or dismount it, stuff with something to spread it, and leave in sun for a bit. Has anyone done this?

As fate would have it, I had to run my little daughter to day care, so I had to use cage anyway, rather than run the bike to work as is normal. So I threw the tire in there and went to shop. The tire guy also had a very hard time with it. What he said ultimately worked, was to press and unseat the section which was willing to seat, which led to the other section finally seating. Upon removing the "unseat" pressure from the section which would originally seat, led that to seat immediately.

Not sure what I have learned here, as I didn't get the tire on by myself. But I have another chance, as the 19" Michelin Pilot for another Airhead has arrived. Yikes! Perhaps I should begin with the "spreading" technique I described?
 
One other thing to keep in mind. The rim & the toolkit were produced at a time when the tires you bought 3.25x19 and 4.00x18 were tires designated for tube use ONLY.

Since that time the manufacturers have for a while made these tires as tubeless. Reportedly using a tubeless tire with a tube is acceptable. I also understand that when using a tube in a tubeless, the tire's speed rating needs to be considered one step lower than as marked on the tire. This is because the tube causes the tire to run comparatively hotter than when tubeless.

When I have compared a tubeless and a tube type motorcycle tire, the walls on the tubeless are stiffer and the bead has much less flex, both of which make the mounting more difficult. For my bike at least I can understand that tire technology has changed in 36 years.

The original tire irons were sufficient for tube type tires, not so for me with the tubeless. Going larger with the irons raises the risk of damaging the bead or the rim, particularly when frustration results in brute force being liberally applied.

I'm sure that someone must change these tires by hand easily, probably due to changing them often and being skillful and in good practice. I seem to go through a rear about every year or so, and fronts two to three years, no way to develop the skills on that schedule. Paying a shop is my M.O. these days. Sure helps my blood pressure.
 
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