It's BMW Scooter Time!

Jim
Had you just refueled the bike when you got the hesitation stalling, just wondering. Several inmates have reported those symptoms when getting a tank of bad stuff. Has it happened again?
Will look at the brake line on wife's 650 this week, spiral hose protector may be the answere for a slight rubbing, used on aircraft hoses when their is a slight chaffing issue

FYI
To all going to install Skene P3 lights on the 650 will let you all know the outcome!

t6pilot said:

Jim
Had you just refueled the bike when you got the hesitation stalling, just wondering. Several inmates have reported those symptoms when getting a tank of bad stuff. Has it happened again?
Will look at the brake line on wife's 650 this week, spiral hose protector may be the answere for a slight rubbing, used on aircraft hoses when their is a slight chaffing issue

FYI
To all going to install Skene P3 lights on the 650 will let you all know the outcome!

Click to expand...

Happened across several tanks from different sources & different fuel levels unfortunately.

Hay Jim, My 650GT stalled 3 times 15 sec. apart. I was in a parking lot and it was like someone turn the key off. I had a half tank of CA gas, another 52 miles later it's running fine. I have around 2500 miles on it now. Anyone else?

IBKING

Here is a long shot about the stalling. If you read your manual it says to use 89 aki (anti knock index). And it also says to use super unleaded fuel, in North America 89 aki is mid grade at 89 octane. European ratings ROZ/RON is there fuel rating. If you go to the following website you can see the the European compared to North American conversion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline
Just maybe if you change fuel the stalling may stop. The higher octane may have your engine running hot. Just a thought I use mid grade and have not had any issues.
Octane rating is measured relative to a mixture of [[2,2,4-Trimethylpentane]] (an [[isomer]] of [[octane]]) and n-[[heptane]]. There are different conventions for expressing octane ratings, so a fuel may have several different octane ratings based on the measure used. Research octane number (RON) for commercially-available gasoline varies by country. In [[Finland]], [[Sweden]], and [[Norway]], 95 RON is the standard for regular unleaded petrol and 98 RON is also available as a more expensive option. In the UK, ordinary regular unleaded petrol is 91 RON (not commonly available), premium unleaded petrol is always 95 RON, and super unleaded is usually 97-98 RON. However, both Shell and BP produce fuel at 102 RON for cars with high-performance engines, and the supermarket chain [[Tesco]] began in 2006 to sell super unleaded petrol rated at 99 RON. In the US, octane ratings in unleaded fuels can vary between 86 and 87 AKI (91-92 RON) for regular, through 89-90 AKI (94-95 RON) for mid-grade (European premium), up to 90-94 AKI (95-99 RON) for premium (European super).
Good luck

Some fuel guru may come along and say I am wrong, but the higher octane will burn slower and I don't think it will make the engine run "hot" but should have the opposite affect if any, lower octane might make it run hotter, again i don't think it would have an appreciable effect on a water-cooled engine especially. Lower octane is related to preignition and detonation and I would relate this to possibly making an engine run hot.

That said back in the 90s when I worked on Mercedes we had a specific model and year MB that suffered from what was described as "false starts", you started the engine, particularly a cold start, and the engine seemed to start then die immediately, the started fine on the second attempt. They regional tech rep said to recommend switching to mid-grade (from the recommended high grade), and this did seem to fix the problem.

So even though I don't agree with the reasoning, I think it is worth a try.

Well, I got mine back from the dealer and they re-adapted the FI programming, checked the idle vent hose, the sidestand sensor and the charcoal canister hose, etc. and found nothing, but it's stopped stalling for now.

Unfortunately after the first time it happened, which was only once that first time and immediately after starting, it went 10 days or so before happening again, so I will not be confident for a while - fingers crossed and much obliged for the ideas.

IBKING, if you're seeing it, don't be surprised if it returns and ride with this in mind, and it will restart without moving the key or kill switch but you must at least lightly hold the brake.

Well, to say they readapted the FI and "found nothing" is kind of contradictory. That might have fixed the issue, for now. Once the fuel trim continues to adapt to the engine, it might start doing it again, I would keep this in mind. I would tend to think that possibly the fuel trim is being driven a bit too lean. Would it take something like a power commander to repair? I would think that BMW might be looking at a fuelling issue that might be able to be repaired with a ECU reflash.

Interestingly, the bike felt a little different after the readaptation - like the engine was running smoother and possibly even more powerful, but this is a feeling I felt before so it's as though the fueling/running characteristics are adapting strangely - not sure how to explain it. But let's hope it doesn't maladapt again.

The fact that not only does BMW admit knowing about it already, but that there's more than one person experiencing it among the small group of owners in this thread tells me this is probably not an isolated issue.

That aside, assuming it doesn't return and/or BMW finds the cause and fixes it for everyone, I still absolutely love the bike - getting off the R1150 loaner and back onto the C650GT was like heaven, so smooth and protected and mellow, so convenient with the glove boxes and storage, man I love this thing.

Oh and I found another use for the electric screen - while riding to the dealer and home I got rained on, and on the loaner I got soaked and also couldn't really do much about the rain on my helmet, but when on the GT, not only were my legs and feet dry, warm and comfy, I was also able to adjust the windblast to eye level where it blew the rain right off my visor, then back up for quiet. Simply awesome.

There was one other bummer though - the dealer charged me $350 for the first 600 mile service. I've usually gotten these for free with other cars and bikes and certainly never more than $150-200, this seemed excessive. Maybe just a welcome to BMW service pricing, but I wondered if I was effectively being charged for time spent diagnosing the stalling problem or rerouting the misrouted charcoal cannister hose, etc.

Plus, and perhaps more importantly (and this may have influenced my perception on the service pricing), they asked for money for accessory install that had been expressly negotiated to be included and already paid for. I gave them another hundred because the salesperson said they'd underestimated the labor, and more importantly they had my bike and telling them to shove it for a bike with a dangerous problem seemed like taking my life in my hands, and they acted put out about me even giving them only an extra hundred above what we'd expressly agreed to - I may not go back there for more service now as I feel a bit like I've been taken advantage of.

When shopping, make sure to get a commitment in writing both on first service pricing and accessory install. I'm really liking the bike when it's running properly but this has been my roughest purchase and initial ownership experience of any car or motorcycle, by far.

JimInSF said:

There was one other bummer though - the dealer charged me $350 for the first 600 mile service. I've usually gotten these for free with other cars and bikes and certainly never more than $150-200, this seemed excessive. Maybe just a welcome to BMW service pricing, but I wondered if I was effectively being charged for time spent diagnosing the stalling problem or rerouting the misrouted charcoal cannister hose, etc.

Plus, and perhaps more importantly (and this may have influenced my perception on the service pricing), they asked for money for accessory install that had been expressly negotiated to be included and already paid for. I gave them another hundred because the salesperson said they'd underestimated the labor, and more importantly they had my bike and telling them to shove it for a bike with a dangerous problem seemed like taking my life in my hands, and they acted put out about me even giving them only an extra hundred above what we'd expressly agreed to - I may not go back there for more service now as I feel a bit like I've been taken advantage of.

When shopping, make sure to get a commitment in writing both on first service pricing and accessory install. I'm really liking the bike when it's running properly but this has been my roughest purchase and initial ownership experience of any car or motorcycle, by far.

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When I took my scooter in for 600 mile service I paid a whopping $64 plus tax. Now I had done my oil change myself and the oil and filter because we get gouged in Canada
Cost me almost $125. $23 for each litre (i bought 4) of oil and $23 for the filter as for the rest I do not think they new what to charge me because I was the first one the had to service. I looked at the list and there was nothing for them to do but all visual checking, then they washed the bike. I am not looking foreword to the 12000 mile check

JimInSF said:

There was one other bummer though - the dealer charged me $350 for the first 600 mile service. I've usually gotten these for free with other cars and bikes and certainly never more than $150-200, this seemed excessive. Maybe just a welcome to BMW service pricing, but I wondered if I was effectively being charged for time spent diagnosing the stalling problem or rerouting the misrouted charcoal cannister hose, etc.

Plus, and perhaps more importantly (and this may have influenced my perception on the service pricing), they asked for money for accessory install that had been expressly negotiated to be included and already paid for. I gave them another hundred because the salesperson said they'd underestimated the labor, and more importantly they had my bike and telling them to shove it for a bike with a dangerous problem seemed like taking my life in my hands, and they acted put out about me even giving them only an extra hundred above what we'd expressly agreed to - I may not go back there for more service now as I feel a bit like I've been taken advantage of.

When shopping, make sure to get a commitment in writing both on first service pricing and accessory install. I'm really liking the bike when it's running properly but this has been my roughest purchase and initial ownership experience of any car or motorcycle, by far.

Click to expand...

I would be speaking with the sales person and the management at the same time and demanding my money back if I had already paid for the acc. install.
If they quoted the price too low that's on them.

Found these pictures on an Italian forum what do you think. The first one a red whit and blue and the second one has new chrome accessories what do you think

The website is in Italian where I found these pictures but it has a English conversion option

The first one looks like a rehash of something Pandora's has done before.

The second one is a rolling excuse for bad taste by Wunderlic

+1

I actually don't mind the Wunderlich bars, though the stickers are obviously not for everyone...

The first bike looks pretty sweet, I guess this would just be considered a "BMW Motorad" color scheme (?)

/ mod hat on /

Well folks, we survived the forum transition! How about opening up the Scooter Forum! It's located in the Garage towards the bottom...the only place that I could find!

Now it's time to go Twistin'!!

/ mod hat off /

Engine Fault Light??

On the trip home from dealer/delivery, stopped to refuel and my engine fault light came on, began running rough, died, wouldn't re-start. After 10 min. or so, got it started, the fault light went out and I was good to go (I thought). Went to AZ for the winter, and with approx. 1200 mi, the engine fault returned. I took it in to dealer to check for fault codes, found an ignition coil and oxygen sensor faults. Apparently one of the coil wires on one of the spark plugs was not firmly inserted, probably from the factory. Dealer felt the oxygen sensor fault was due to coil fault. After properly seating the coil wire, faults were reset, and I rode it home 120 mi. Have not had the opportunity to ride again but believe the problem is solved.

JimInSF said:

Yeah, I'm trying to be mellow about it but I'm a bit concerned - the bucking and surging would be one thing and bad enough already if it repeated, but dying on you is quite another and IMHO, nontrivially dangerous - if I'd been entering a turn before traffic, this is how you get killed, and when I called the dealer, they asked if I could reproduce it and when I said no, the service guy said he wasn't sure what he could do for me, which was not reassuring. (So, what, I drive a bike that may die with no apparent cause at any moment until either I have a wreck or I can reliably kill it somehow but manage not to get killed?) My wife is actually unhappy and wants me to bring it in and leave it until they find something, I'm going to have the first service done in two weeks anyway so I'll wait until then and hopefully they'll catch something.

Much obliged for anyone with any ideas about what would cause this - my first thought was bad fuel pump but not sure this would cause the instant shutoff like that. I also had a hose in an odd place behind the left side glove box which I moved to the left because it was in the way of the box closure, perhaps some wiring or vacuum in there or something is loose? I also noticed at one point that after putting the third tank of gas in it, it suddenly seemed to be running smoother, but the dying was after that tank. Bad gas? Reaching for possibilities here...

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Interesting! If the stall ever returns, I will definitely have him check this, though in my case, there was no fault, it just died.

Right now it's running great (put another 150 miles on it since picking it back up from the dealer), and I'm in love with it again - oddly, it feels like it might be running stronger or more smoothly after the FI readaptation. Maybe it's just breaking in. (He also mentioned that he'd adjusted the idle stepper motor, so there's another idea for anyone experiencing this and looking.)

Yesterday I gained a new appreciation for how tricky BMW makes it on the dealers on these new models - for the scooters, they changed the design of the lock on the top case, and it ended up taking the tech quite a while to install a lock that he said takes them all of 2 minutes on the older models (he installed it while I watched & chatted). I've now got the top box and GPS installed, just waiting for the protection bumpers to arrive.