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standing on footpegs crazy GS riders

The Canada Safety Council motorcycle course (MSF equivalent) taught standing on the pegs many years ago when I took it.

It is hypocritical to teach the procedure in a safety course on one hand and to criminalize it as "stunting" on the other. Police officers do have discretion and believe it or not, the vast majority of time are quite reasonable and can differentiate between safe and dangerous behaviour.

If some cop tried to ticket me for standing on the pegs going across one of the absolutely gawd-awful railway level crossings around here, they would get a major piece of my mind, and so would the desk sergeant and so would the chief and so would the chairman of the police board. I still have the course manual that advocates standing. Let them argue with that. This is the kind of legislated stupidity that makes my blood boil.
 
Based on the discussion here, I e-mailed the Canada Safety Council regarding the practice of standing on the foot pegs to deal with road hazards.

I received the following prompt reply:

Thank you for your e-mail message. The Canada Safety Council (CSC) continues to advocate rising slightly on the footrests when going over bumps or objects on the road such as a tail pipe from another vehicle. The Ontario motorcycle handbook produced by MTO on page 80 and 81 states: Driving over objects  3. Rise slightly on the footrests. This allows your arms and legs to absorb the shock and helps keep you from being bounced off as the rear wheel hits the object. The Ontario stunt law is a tool for Police officers in the fight against stunting motorcyclists and it is not intended for law abiding motorcyclists. I have been riding since 1974 and I ride about 18,000 kilometres per year. I also sit on the traffic committee for the Canadian Association of Chief of Police; the stunt laws are intended to reduce stunting, not reduce safety.

In Canada, at least, if there is a demonstrable reason for standing to deal with a road hazard, there is a sound basis to fight a possible citation.
 
This is the section of the new BC law pertaining to remaining seated.



How it reads is pretty clear and restricting. The real question for the cops would be how will it be enforced, and that may be subject to much variety I would imagine.

Thanks, Ed. (Wonder how your quote got deleted?) Local RCMP office closed 15 minutes before I got there Wednesday and today I frankly forgot to call. BUT I WILL. I believe this is not just another bad law, it is a law that has received little or no publicity here in BC so very likely to be broken by resident riders who hadn't a clue they were committing an offence. (Might be great for nailing motorcycle tourists as well.) Certainly there are times when standing on the pegs might be a bad idea on BC (or any) highways - in heavy traffic for example, because hard braking doesn't go well with riding vertical - but I am pretty sure there are more general "dangerous driving" laws to cover that sort of stupidity.

I guess we all know that "ignorance of the law is no excuse," at least in court. We also know that there is a small minority of cops who just don't like motorcyclists. Seems like the perfect law to cost a few riders bucks and further clog up the court system without doing a damn thing to enhance safety.

Makes me wonder if there are other new BC laws for motorcyclists which few have heard about. Will check and report back.
 
Never have tried it much until today on my RT. Sure am wanting a GS but can't quite justify it after just buying a new RT in April. I watched the GT Giant competition at the rally and those guys are good. I'm practicing by putting lots of miles on the RT and making sure it stays dirty.

Get a small dual sport and take it off road. My RS is terrific for road use, but I love my Super Sherpa too (Kawasaki KL250) and it will go a lot more places than my RS. A used dual sport is inexpensive and it's not hard to get your money back out of it. As a bonus many get 60-80+ mpg and make great errand bikes. I often find my short run to the store turns into a hour-long cruise in the country sometimes off road. I think dirt riding is a great way (maybe the best way?) to improve motorcycle skills on the road.
 
Thanks, Ed. (Wonder how your quote got deleted?) Local RCMP office closed 15 minutes before I got there Wednesday and today I frankly forgot to call. BUT I WILL. I believe this is not just another bad law, it is a law that has received little or no publicity here in BC so very likely to be broken by resident riders who hadn't a clue they were committing an offence. (Might be great for nailing motorcycle tourists as well.) Certainly there are times when standing on the pegs might be a bad idea on BC (or any) highways - in heavy traffic for example, because hard braking doesn't go well with riding vertical - but I am pretty sure there are more general "dangerous driving" laws to cover that sort of stupidity.

I guess we all know that "ignorance of the law is no excuse," at least in court. We also know that there is a small minority of cops who just don't like motorcyclists. Seems like the perfect law to cost a few riders bucks and further clog up the court system without doing a damn thing to enhance safety.

Makes me wonder if there are other new BC laws for motorcyclists which few have heard about. Will check and report back.

Just spoke to a constable with the Vernon, BC RCMP. Apparently the reason for laws such as this that carry a fine of just over $100 is that charges of "driving without due care and attention" are often thrown out of court by judges.

If you stand up to cross RR tracks or just to stretch your legs where it is safe to do so, ALMOST certainly you will not receive a ticket. So pick your spots to stretch your legs.
 
Here's a little known fact. Most of the GS riders on the track have been riding off road for less than two years. Many were inspired to come out last year and have been practicing ever since. To anyone who wants to ride like that, come out and meet the Giants. They are all, every one, very supportive of the noobs and less experienced riders.

Thats great to hear.....I have a GS....and I am trying to learn how to ride it!
 
I used to love "flying" on my old Seca 650. Stand up, lean into the tank indents and from there you can't see the bike, just the road. That was lots of fun on quiet backroads. Now I do it on the GS to stretch, get some air to the humid regions, and better control on some dirt roads
 
Standing up on the footpegs will also raise the center of gravity, making you and your bike more top heavy.

No it actually lowers the center of gravity. Counter intuitive I know but the load carried by the seat is shifted to the pegs and thus lowers the center of gravity increasing stability in the process.
 
no it actually lowers the center of gravity. Counter intuitive i know but the load carried by the seat is shifted to the pegs and thus lowers the center of gravity increasing stability in the process.

+1
 
No it actually lowers the center of gravity. Counter intuitive I know but the load carried by the seat is shifted to the pegs and thus lowers the center of gravity increasing stability in the process.

More accurately it converts a tightly coupled system (you and the bike joined at your butt) to a loosely coupled system where your knees act as a spring that lightly separates the mass of the bike from your mass. The CG of the bike is lowered. Your CG is raised. More importantly you can move your CG around. When riding in loose stuff the location of the CG may be more important than how high it is off the ground. Moving your body to put the CG over the contact patch helps control the bike.
 
More accurately it converts a tightly coupled system (you and the bike joined at your butt) to a loosely coupled system where your knees act as a spring that lightly separates the mass of the bike from your mass. The CG of the bike is lowered. Your CG is raised. More importantly you can move your CG around. When riding in loose stuff the location of the CG may be more important than how high it is off the ground. Moving your body to put the CG over the contact patch helps control the bike.

Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread. This fool took Physics for Philosophers as part of my undergrad program which fully qualifies me as a fool in this discussion but one who likes to learn. My prof was a rider and often used motorcycles as examples.

My take away was a fuzzy understanding that in this case you effectively changed the center of gravity(lowered it) by standing on the pegs. At the same time you changed the center of mass in two ways (effectively raised it as you stood while moving it forward nearer the front wheel). By changing the center of mass in relation to the lowered center of gravity you decreased the effort required to correct (balance) changes of input as you rode on an uneven surface. After that it is a blur of vector diagrams and memories of a lovely lass I met in that class, but I digress.

Not being argumentative just really enjoy these kinds of discussions and learning. Really wish I understood it better and where that girl is now. But again I digress.
:brad
 
What allows the effective change to the center of inertial forces is the almost independent movement of rider and bike. Remove that partial independence and things change. Imagine the rider sitting on a saddle directly connected to the footpegs with steel rods. Raising the rider by making the steel rods longer will not lower the effective CoG.

But I sucked at physics. Modeling a dynamic system like a bike in motion is hard.
 
My take away was a fuzzy understanding that in this case you effectively changed the center of gravity(lowered it) by standing on the pegs. At the same time you changed the center of mass in two ways (effectively raised it as you stood while moving it forward nearer the front wheel)...

In the hope of promoting understanding among the masses, I would like to suggest, recommend, and even assert that "center of gravity" and "center of mass" are two names for the same thing, at least as far as physics is concerned in this particular situation. Not to say that they are precisely the same thing in all cases, but for practical purposes they are the same for a rider and motorcycle on the surface of dear old planet earth. If you want absolute, irrefutable proof, you can read about it on Wikipedia, which everyone agrees is at least as reliable as an oilhead hall effect sensor.

I've been enjoying the thread. Carry on. :lurk
 
...snip...Wikipedia, which everyone agrees is at least as reliable as an oilhead hall effect sensor.

I've been enjoying the thread. Carry on. :lurk


Ah the old wikepedia dodge. :brow

You're trying to confuse me with facts when I have already reached my PCC, Peak Confusion Capacity. Clearly a waste of time.
:nyah

Alright let me carry on in a different line. In the normal riding position the weight of the rider is carried by three points the seat, foot pegs and handle bars. In the GS posture you are spreading it between two points. What are the concerns for the change of weight carried by the bars and rider input?

:lurk
 
As our northern neighbors have been discussing here a bit, check with your local laws before you take to a life of standing on the pegs all the time. Some states may equate it to stunting, other, Oregon, just calls it, unlawful operation of a motorcycle. I would like to think that if you just stood up for a brief stretch, no one would bother you or if you were on a gravel road you could explain it away if stopped. But those folks you see going down the freeway for a mile or two standing or going through town standing block to block, they would most likely be stopped, if the cop knows about the statute. Even here, if there is a reason to stand briefly, trying to see a route through pot holes etc, sure you may be able to get away with it, but the statute is pretty broad and does not make allowances.

So check local laws please.
 
As our northern neighbors have been discussing here a bit, check with your local laws before you take to a life of standing on the pegs all the time. Some states may equate it to stunting, other, Oregon, just calls it, unlawful operation of a motorcycle. I would like to think that if you just stood up for a brief stretch, no one would bother you or if you were on a gravel road you could explain it away if stopped. But those folks you see going down the freeway for a mile or two standing or going through town standing block to block, they would most likely be stopped, if the cop knows about the statute. Even here, if there is a reason to stand briefly, trying to see a route through pot holes etc, sure you may be able to get away with it, but the statute is pretty broad and does not make allowances.

So check local laws please.

So, Oregon too! Checking "local laws" doesn't seem too practical for a person touring the US, Canada, or both on a bike. And the last thing you need on a trip is to run afoul of LEO's out to garner revenue from you from some basically unpublicized law.

So, get a comfortable seat for your bike, and (on the highways) only stand when nobody is likely to see you. Same thing with speeding. Obey the law in towns; obey the law as you exit towns; go with the flow of traffic - if all the locals are sticking to the speed limit which you think is ridiculously low, they know something about local speed enforcement which you don't.
 
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