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Thread: More on BMW brake line failures

  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by 70783 View Post

    FWIW, I do have a set of Spiegler SS lines that I will be installing on the RS this fall. Looking forward to some improvement in braking.

    Ride Safe,

    Steve
    At their worst BMW brakes make the asphalt wrinkle up in front of the tires like a loose rug. What exactly are you looking for?

  2. #47
    Registered User ANDYVH's Avatar
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    I want to clarify my earlier statement about the inner tube swelling/softening over tine due to exposure to brake fluid. I didn't mean it to say that it insures a line failure, just that it is a characteristic of synthetic rubber inner tube material. The stock hoses may well live the life of the bike. But the degradation of the inner tube does lead to less responsive feel at the brake lever. In some cases the inner tube can come loose from the hose reinforcement and act like a check valve to hold minimal pressure in the line and cause a dragging brake.

    New standard brake brake hoses will feel good too. But, teflon lined S/S braided hoses will not change in feel over time. Still a much better product overall.
    Get trained! The best "performance" upgrade you can get is YOU. Visit msf-usa.org for training info.

  3. #48
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKman View Post
    At their worst BMW brakes make the asphalt wrinkle up in front of the tires like a loose rug. What exactly are you looking for?
    actually if you have a front internal failure/blockage and your caliper(s) doesn't release...your sitting down area will be seriously wrinkling up your saddle like that loose rug
    BTDT!
    Steve Henson
    SABMWRA MOA Club#62's Flat Fixer/ current forum moderator
    It's not the breaths you take, but the moments that take your breath away-D.Dillon/G. Strait

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by henzilla View Post
    actually if you have a front internal failure/blockage and your caliper(s) doesn't release...your sitting down area will be seriously wrinkling up your saddle like that loose rug
    BTDT!
    Had a front caliper stick on a KLR 250 a couple of years ago. Had to take it apart to get the wheel turning again and return home. About 50 times more likely to have a car pull out in front of me. I'm budgeting all of my worry for that near certainty if I keep riding long enough.

  5. #50
    Delaware.Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Wanderer View Post
    I have to agree here. I put Spiegler braided lines on my 1100RT this past winter and once they were bled properly the difference between rubber lines and teflon braided lines was immediately apparent.
    Happy, Do you have the part numbers for the R1100RT lines you used? I saw only fitment for the S1000RR on their website.

    My daily ride is a '99 R11RT. Braided lines would be a smart upgrade for me.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delaware.Dave View Post
    Happy, Do you have the part numbers for the R1100RT lines you used? I saw only fitment for the S1000RR on their website.

    My daily ride is a '99 R11RT. Braided lines would be a smart upgrade for me.
    this page should work fine for anyone...

    http://spieglerusa.com/brakes/cycle-...line-kits.html

    and this page should work fine for you...

    http://spieglerusa.com/brake-line-kit-151.htm
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  7. #52

    Thumbs up This issue still exists and is worse than ever.

    Bike is a 2001 R1100S ABS-II and I am the original owner, 30k miles on the clock. I was aware of when the transition from "Bike has a loan and comprehensive insurance of course, and also a warranty, not that it'll really need it" to "Bike is paid off and sure I've got comp, it's a valuable investment and worth more now than ever."

    For a number of years I commuted on it almost daily from San Jose to Redwood City, California, and previous to 2010, at 8AM 280N just after 85 finishes dumping into google, that highway contained some of the best memories, of all those open lanes, almost no other cars on the highway at that point, just me and the bike and maybe some fog and thinking of everything ahead in the workday. It was bliss and I was doing good in life, making most of the right decisions, and the union of machine and man was that extra bit that got me out of bed every morning. Traffic, so what.

    Sometime thereafter I had to quit riding due to health problems. I've since made a full recovery ten years later and of course I'm climbing back onto the saddle to use my newfound capabilities. My ride gear no longer fits, but purchased back in 1999, the 30k miles I put on it certainly got my money's worth. I never wrecked but I try to be ready because you have to plan for the worst with crazy drivers. I had a CBR600F4 previous to this bike but it and the days I spent at the track are behind me.

    So, the brakes.

    I went to resurrect the bike, and came up with this last week, I wrote this to some local friends, a little car wrenching group I'm part of:

    So I started today with a simple master cylinder rebuild on one 01 BMW R1100S. Yeah it's not a car but it has more in common with a car than most other motorcycles. Rear ring and pinion, a driveshaft, a dry clutch, engine facing the right way, a belt driven alternator, abs and fuel injection, c'mon it's a car with two wheels.

    Master cylinder came apart and went back together as could be expected. I planned for all of the disaster and cleanup capabilities of a full blown tanker truck toxic waste spill. Yes, not one but two blue paper towel boxes and 1.25 liters of brake fluid ready to spend a short life on its way to the stomach of my giant vacuum bleeder.

    The bike hasn't been ridden in almost ten years, though tenderly stored underground parking and under a cover.

    So if it's rubber or liquid, and any way related to safety, it's being replaced or under heavy scrutiny-- and that apparently was not enough.

    They say brake lines die on the inside... you can't see on the outside...

    So the first thing I notice is that I can't pump up any pressure at all. Which is strange, so I keep sticking the bleeder (air operated, professional model that can suck-start a leaf blower, made by Mac tools) on either caliper up front. There are two, with a total of eight pistons seeking shelter inside the brembo calipers.

    I can get fluid from either side, but this bike has ABS so I check out it's bleeder, and yep, I'm getting fluid from that, too. But something is wonky and it's like the M/C just isn't building up any pressure.

    I start wondering if maybe the ABS servo ruptured internally. Which sounds like such a believable explanation, "Yup, ABS servo ruptured internally. Ya gonna need a new one, can have it for you next week for say, three thousand or so... I take personal checks don'tcha know."

    Except I don't have a servo system, I just made it up. Not even sure an ABS servo can rupture, lol. That's just what it FELT like, though. So I disconnect it from the system and perform a complicated pressure differential test using my new freshly calibrated real-time sensor tool: I stick my finger over the end of the hydraulic line and give the lever a good squeeze. Ah hah! There be pressure. That feels good. I hook the line back up though by now my reserve of brake fluid is definitely on its way down. I disconnect the outlet and stick the same ultra-calibrated sensor into the offending port, and squeeze the lever. Shutting my eyes just in case. And I feel it! That's a firm brake lever: No ABS rupture.

    Whatever is causing the problem is downstream.

    It is now that something odd happens, and when I just simply remove the bleeder from the caliper to really let the system do some fun with gravity, I squeeze the lever and... uh... why is it firm? Halfway down, it's hard as a rock.

    I squeeze... and verify that the bleeder is in fact lying on the floor next to the 10, 11, 12, 13mm wrenches because just one size would have made too much sense with BMW. They want you to appreciate having every size in your toolbox, and prove your wisdom in buying them by using as many sizes as can be.

    The brake system is open, and I can't squeeze my lever past halfway. So I do what every man would do in this situation.

    I squeeze real hard.

    And something gives. Brake fluid is now flowing freely out of my calipers. I'm slowly able to build up pressure in the system, and a dozen bleed processes and a liter of ATE super-wish-I-was-blue fluid later, the system now feels like crap and something is awry. So I do what every nerd does.

    I hit the web. And found here, and this thread.

    Here's my lines cut open.

    2018-01-01 22.56.00.jpg

    2018-01-01 22.57.33.jpg

    Those little 'blisters' on the inner liner are full of brake fluid, they pop just like the name implies. The inner reinforcing fabric is saturated with brake fluid. I don't think these lines could get much worse without actually failing, though they basically are failed, and no one should be that surprised given the age, still.

    I finished putting a set of Spiegler lines on it today. They were in stock at beemershop.com, I had em in a couple of days, and they fit perfect. They came with a little tool to hold the banjo end and line, so you could safely rotate the banjo to solve any line orientation issues. One line needed about 15 degrees of rotation, that was it. I bled the hell out of them and now my lever is very firm, I feel confident about these brakes.

    Otherwise the bike is beautiful, it looks like it came out of a time machine. You would never guess it's this old, the paint is like new, I don't know how, maybe the good wax I used, and I kept it under a cover. Whatever the case is, I can't wait to ride it. I'll prolly be attending another MSF course soon, just to refresh, though I remember SIPDE and am one seriously observant rider.

    2018-01-01 23.21.21.jpg

    With love,
    Sinclair aka Keman

  8. #53
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    ^ nice job.
    Take a BRCII or an ERC class. SIPDE is gone, it's now SEE. See you on http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r...0s-tech-forum/
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  9. #54
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum!

    Well done, the more pictures others can see the better.
    The bottom line is every rubber line needs to be replaced on all models from '93 to '05
    BMW should issue a safety bulletin on this.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  10. #55
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    Welcome to the forum!

    Well done, the more pictures others can see the better.
    The bottom line is every rubber line needs to be replaced on all models from '93 to '05
    BMW should issue a safety bulletin on this.
    The more I think about this it appears a similar problem to Oilhead wiring harnesses.

    Oilheads were the first bikes BMW produced following new Euro regulations that automotive components be biodegradable.

    No, BMW doesn't need to issue a safety bulletin ... the brake hoses are performing as designed. BMW's not issuing a bulletin stating beware of 10-year old tires, either.

    Usually when new regulations appear, the first products show problems and the next generation has most of them solved. With Hexheads/Camheads we now get steel-braiding covered brake lines and CANBus.

    Oilheads are going to need lots of new parts to keep them going.
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  11. #56
    Left Coast Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    No, BMW doesn't need to issue a safety bulletin ... the brake hoses are performing as designed.
    You're right, BMW should just recall every oilhead ever built and/or reimburse every owner who has had to pay to replace their brake hoses due to them NOT performing as designed.

  12. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    Yes, and the Gentleman with the accent is extremely helpful.
    He's the owner and pleasure to do business with. I used to live across the street from their operation near Dayton and have stopped by to buy several sets of brake lines over the years. First class operation... you could eat off the floor. He keeps a beautiful Porsche sitting a few feet away from the counter.

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