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Another "Left Turn Death" here in Maine....

xp8103

New member
Middle aged rider, 17 year old SUV driver. No the rider didn't have a helmet, yes the 17 year old driver was inexperienced but that is not what I'm here to discuss.

Is it just me or does there seem to be a higher percentage of these accidents? Sure, more cars on the road, more accidents but......

Here's a thought.

Daytime running lights. Up until DRLs became prevalent, GENERALLY the only lights you saw coming at you during the day were on bikes. If you saw a light, it was a bike. Now, when you look ahead down the road, ALL you see are lights, day and night.

DRLs were supposed to make driving safer. Did they have an unintended consequence?

Just a thought....
 
Years ago an insurance executive was asked what change in traffic laws would benefit his company the most. He did not say speeding or raising the minimum driving age or re-testing or drunk driving or cell phones - he said banning the left turn against oncoming traffic.
 
It is a proven fact that turns in front of riders is the number one cause. That's why I have Hi-Vis jacket extra lights up front in triangle pattern and vigilant in those situations, which is always. It's just dangerous. I can see why some give it up especially with wifey and youngin's.
 
Rick had all of these

It is a proven fact that turns in front of riders is the number one cause. That's why I have Hi-Vis jacket extra lights up front in triangle pattern and vigilant in those situations, which is always. It's just dangerous. I can see why some give it up especially with wifey and youngin's.

My friend Rick had all of these on his BMW when a woman turned in front of him in Anderson, SC. he died the next day. He was ATGATT; it did not help.

The problem is nothing more than people driving while distracted. I have a buddy who drives an ambulance and people turn in front of him all the time.

THEY ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION.
 
I've always tried to remind myself to assume that every car around me is going to hit me right up to the point at which it doesn't.
 
IMHO, nothing to do with DT lighting. It has to do with incompetent people being issued licenses. No more drivers ED in high school, do to liability issues and budget cuts, incompetent parents teaching (or should I say riding around with their kids JUST long enough for them to get a license), feeling of safety with 94 airbags, ABS, back up warning etc, which makes the consequences of not paying attention seem minimal.

It will not get better until we toughen up training and licensing requirements.
 
this week, I have asked a very young left turner with the cell phone to her ear if she understood how close she came to killing me. I asked her if she knew what defending herself from manslaughter cost. All I got was a blank stare. Then there was the woman throwing her cigarette butt out the window while texting. screamed at her. I avoided all of them (this time).

Rod
 
this week, I have asked a very young left turner with the cell phone to her ear if she understood how close she came to killing me. I asked her if she knew what defending herself from manslaughter cost. All I got was a blank stare. Then there was the woman throwing her cigarette butt out the window while texting. screamed at her. I avoided all of them (this time).

Rod

If it was close, you showed great restraint, I think that cell phone would have been drop kicked into the next county, if it were me.
 
Zone Zombies

Although I always ride with 'all lights blazing' my observation is that drivers seem to be evolving into some sort of detached zone. Just try and drive detached in an old VW Beetle on a cold winter day. Focus was required. A car has become the mobile livingroom. Isolation from the road, the vehicle, 'others' and even one's self I suppose. The vehicle itself seems to compel the driver to loose focus and drift off.

(a bit of pscho-babble) There are numerous psychological proximity experiments which demonstrate the loss of 'connection' or empathy with another individual as distance from that individual increases and, inversely, the connection/empathy tends to be enhanced as personal distance decreases. Thus, it seems to me that the experience and senses of a cage driver motoring along tends to be detached and somewhat disengaged from the real task at hand. Like that girl with the cell phone mentioned in another post, she had no idea what she was being told. And that is really an unsettling thought as the numbers of vehicles increases and the tolerances of individuals become frayed.

It's like trying to control deer and rabbits. Ever try explaining the situation to a deer? :rofl - Bob
 
Just my thought

I've been riding for over 40 years and had a few close calls when I was young; they were mostly my fault. But, in the last couple of years I have had more than a few close calls and most were due to people on cell phones and young inexperienced teenage drivers :groovy. Take both of those off the road and it would be much safer.

DW
 
I have to agree that distracted driving is the biggest issue on the roads today. And, yes, the causes are multiple... poor training, mobile electronics, the isolation of today's cars, poor attitudes, poor enforcement, etc. Having just begun riding again after 30+ years away, I find myself wondering at times if it was all that good an idea to get back on 2 wheels. I love it and do generally limit my riding the the less traveled roads but it seems I see stupid behavior almost every time I'm out. But, not giving it up yet! I have the 3 lights up front, extra tail lights, and my next jacket will be Hi-vis. And, I will keep my level of paranoia high enough to at least reduce the likelihood of an ugly encounter with the distracted masses.
 
Perhaps this is more the symptom than the cause, but I see so many vehicles being sloppily driven these days. Maintaining lane position, making short left turns crossing well into the oncoming lane and vehicles entering a highway expecting existing traffic to yield to them for a few examples.

It just seems that no one cares anymore.
 
It is sad to hear that an old guy on a bike got hit. However, I would rather die on a bike than in old age. Additionally, if I crash again, it will be my fault. Both my last crash and my last near miss were my own fault. Both were bad judgment. Even if the other road user kills me while making a left hand turn when I have the right away, it will be my fault. Even if the driver on right side of the road, decides to make a U turn while I am in his or her path, I accept riding as a dangerous endeavor that may take my life. I also accept that other road users can be as unpredictable as deer. But, cars suck. And, :bikes
 
At work we have driver improvement classes on a 3-year cycle. I volunteered to do a motorcycle awareness module as part of these classes, and did 2 of them this past week.

I go over the findings of the Hurt Report and the MAIDS Report, and also the Wells Report from NZ.

Main problem is the failure of motorists to detect motorcycles in traffic. We all know that. But a big finding is that vision obstructions plays a huge role in motorcycle accidents and all accidents. People who can't see because their vision is blocked will pull out into traffic or turn left despite having no idea what might be on the road. So when driving defensively, you must scan not only for immediate hazards, but for situations that produce accidents, namely situations where another motorist's vision is obstructed, usually by another vehicle.

I asked the bikers in the room why, if the problem is people seeing us in traffic, that they insist on wearing black from head to toe?

I have a PowerPoint presentation with some film clips embedded. It was actually very well received by the audience. The trouble with driver improvement classes is that many of them fail to get into the nitty-gritty of defensive driving. At least mine did that, and was hopefully informative.

I pointed out that all the motorcycle accident studies basically arrived at the same conclusions. Bikers are better off making themselves more visible with white helmets, high-beam headlights, hi-viz vests or jackets, reflective materials, and using lane position to make sure they are not being hidden in traffic and that they appreciate when others' vision is obstructed.

And yes, I don't do as much riding as I used to. I also will favor the slab because there are hopefully no left-turners on the Interstates.

By the way, you can't ignore the fact that the victim in the original post was not wearing a helmet. That not only made him more vulnerable, it made him less visible. What else was he not doing right? He was probably dressed only in black, judging from what the vast majority of no-helmet riders I see are wearing.

All you can do is make yourself highly visible to traffic, avoid being hidden by other vehicles, and raising your defensive driving to world-class levels.

Harry
 
"The deadliest killing force ever assembled ...... The American Driver!"

Looked at NHTSA stats for a 50 year period starting at the year of my birth (1953).

Over 2,077,000 fatalities on US roads.

About 360,000 more since then.

Pogo hit the nail on the head with his infamous comment. :violin
 
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I am not all that sure the problem is seeing us in traffic; rather it is if what is seen actually registers in the passive unskiled brain of many drivers. By "passive', I mean there is not an overriding belief, coupled with action, that they are active participants in driving with others.
The "passive" driver has no sense of personal responsibility on the road, relying instead on ideas like; we are all licensed; we have the latest crash tests behind us; our vehicle got that 13th air bag this year; my vehicle is big; I can "win" in court so there is no such thing as "dead wrong"; the governemnt cares about me and gave me that third brakelight, or took away my headlight switch; etc etc so everything is OK, as substitutes for active personal responsibility and safety.
The licensing surely has deteriorated too; I was shocked to discover you don't even need to be able to parallel park to get one.I guess the SUV manufacturers won that battle!
Wherever possible I slow down, or speed up, to use any pack of cars around to run interference for me at these intersections. I even choose alternate routes if a given route has lots of driveways or intersections. I also use my retrofit headlight switch to get attention, versus the now ubiquitous and thus ignored lights on all the time; even cages have daytime running lights these days. I also will weave bike when approaching alone a car at intersection. I also visualise my potential path to the right of such a vehicle (my left) in case they do go. Always seeing alternate paths is something I was taught!
As to when avoidance fails, I have hardwired into my brain a skill, which once upon a time was taught, to stand up on pegs if crash is imminent. This helps kick bike away, and also tends to move point of impact away from head or torso, to legs, thus sparing vitals. It also can mean difference between slamming directly into a vehicle, versus rolling over hood. A friction or offset roll injury is way better than blunt force trauma!
Those of you who haven't had a severe wreck trust me; the slow motion you experience does give you a tad extra "time"; the mental hardwiring you do gives your brain that answer when it is hunting, rather than freezing into sheer panic. To paraphrase, you will ride how you train. So work that wonderful piece of safety equipment; your mind!
 
As to when avoidance fails, I have hardwired into my brain a skill, which once upon a time was taught, to stand up on pegs if crash is imminent. This helps kick bike away, and also tends to move point of impact away from head or torso, to legs, thus sparing vitals. It also can mean difference between slamming directly into a vehicle, versus rolling over hood. A friction or offset roll injury is way better than blunt force trauma!
Those of you who haven't had a severe wreck trust me; the slow motion you experience does give you a tad extra "time"; the mental hardwiring you do gives your brain that answer when it is hunting, rather than freezing into sheer panic. To paraphrase, you will ride how you train. So work that wonderful piece of safety equipment; your mind!

one problem with this thinking is in the estimation of "imminent".
what for some might be "imminent", to others could be "still have time to execute avoidance manuvers." and trying to execute a hard swerve or braking activity could be severely impeded by standing on the pegs.
 
I have taken to doing a little in-lane weave with a high beam flash when approaching a car turning left, it is sort of automatic now. Seems to get most folks' attention. A Kissan or driving lights would help as well (lights added to future farkle list...)
 
one problem with this thinking is in the estimation of "imminent".
what for some might be "imminent", to others could be "still have time to execute avoidance manuvers." and trying to execute a hard swerve or braking activity could be severely impeded by standing on the pegs.

Yes, that is a very tough call; when is it time to "fold"? Effective avoidance must take priority, of course. This is why I think it is important to run scenarios over and over again in your mind, so you know what to do. And you will then tend to have more "time" to do something about a situation.
Someone on here once said the best time to shed speed is before you have to.
 
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