Harley Davidson

mika · Jun 22, 2012

I am a motorcycle slut. Given the chance I will ride any two wheeler that won't disintegrate while I in the saddle. I'm sorry I just can't help myself.

I regularly get the chance to ride H-Ds and a couple of Buells. My neighbors wife's Sportster has helped me keep my sanity on more than one occasion. Its the 2011 version of a 1957 design. There have been some updates but I don't see a lot of changes from the first one I rode over thirty years ago. I like the bike overall and really like the peanut tank. I think it looks good and holds enough gas for me to have fun but not enough to hate the bike.

For me there are bikes you have flings with, bikes you date and bikes you buy. Right now I own a Roadster and keep looking for - the modifications to make it the perfect bike while keeping my eyes open for other options. I have a great time on H-D's but for me they are one tank stands.

:bikes

lkchris · Jun 23, 2012

Novicebmwlover said:
Who wants an interesting story about Harley Davidson?

Not me ... this is a BMW forum.

NI5L · Jun 23, 2012

lkchris said:
Not me ... this is a BMW forum.

Amen.

rockbottom · Jun 23, 2012

milo said:
All this talk about performance/weight vs cost geesh. If that's your lust just go buy a GSXR 600 and dump your R1200 or Harley which cost double the amount.

My point was I've never understood spending $17-28K on a motorcycle and then having to spend several thousand more to upgrade the performance to the adequate level. But, I realize there are lots of people who do, so to each his own.

osbornk · Jun 23, 2012

rockbottom said:
My point was I've never understood spending $17-28K on a motorcycle and then having to spend several thousand more to upgrade the performance to the adequate level. But, I realize there are lots of people who do, so to each his own.

For some of us, I think it goes back to when we were young. I got my drivers license in 1962 and got my first car and motor scooter. In those days, all vehicles, whether they were cars or motorcycles benefited greatly with modifications to improve their performance. Everything was a pig until we "souped" them up. Now, Harley is one of the few things that we can modify and improve performance enough to make a difference. A chip for the ECU or changing a muffler is just not the same.

joeybones · Jun 23, 2012

Mika said:
I am a motorcycle slut.... For me there are bikes you have flings with, bikes you date and bikes you buy.... I have a great time on H-D's but for me they are one tank stands. /QUOTE]

I just like this. A lot.

BC1100S · Jun 23, 2012

osbornk said:
I got my drivers license in 1962 and got my first car and motor scooter. In those days, all vehicles, whether they were cars or motorcycles benefited greatly with modifications to improve their performance. Everything was a pig until we "souped" them up. Now, Harley is one of the few things that has the same performance today as a Harley that was built in '62......

Sorry, couldn't resist. Don't take it personally.

I do see the point you were originally trying to make.

129654 · Jun 24, 2012

Harley patents water cooled cylinder heads

Came across this article:

http://cmgonline.com/news/2011/06/21/harley-patents-liquid-cooled-big-twin-heads/

Interesting read on the Motor Company's attempt to meet future emission standards, but will it make any extra horse power?

milo · Jun 24, 2012

rockbottom said:
My point was I've never understood spending $17-28K on a motorcycle and then having to spend several thousand more to upgrade the performance to the adequate level. But, I realize there are lots of people who do, so to each his own.

Rockbottom some years ago Harley's were pretty anemic, especially loaded down and riding two-up (of course so were R60's). Re-jetting the carb and opening up the intake and exhaust were almost necessary. The next step would be a higher performance cam, and then they ran pretty well.
But today IMO one doesn't have to spend additional money on a new Harley so they'll run right, any more than a new GS has to have a Remus muffler to run right. My 2009 Electra Glide runs fine stock with its 96" engine. The FI is spot on, it'll accelerate faster than most cars, and loaf along all day long at 75 mph turning 2,700rpm. The newer ones have the 103" engine which run a little better yet. They stop very well with Brembo brakes and ABS is there if needed. For a heavy motorcycle they actually corner fairly well, almost as well as my 1800 Gold Wing did.
Now if cornering aggressively and or riding 100+ mph is what someone wants in a touring bike I would advise looking elsewhere rather than hopping it up trying to make it into something it isn't. Just buy a K1600GTL or Gold Wing 1800.

rockbottom · Jun 25, 2012

milo said:
Rockbottom some years ago Harley's were pretty anemic, especially loaded down and riding two-up (of course so were R60's). Re-jetting the carb and opening up the intake and exhaust were almost necessary. The next step would be a higher performance cam, and then they ran pretty well.
But today IMO one doesn't have to spend additional money on a new Harley so they'll run right, any more than a new GS has to have a Remus muffler to run right. My 2009 Electra Glide runs fine stock with its 96" engine. The FI is spot on, it'll accelerate faster than most cars, and loaf along all day long at 75 mph turning 2,700rpm. The newer ones have the 103" engine which run a little better yet. They stop very well with Brembo brakes and ABS is there if needed. For a heavy motorcycle they actually corner fairly well, almost as well as my 1800 Gold Wing did.
Now if cornering aggressively and or riding 100+ mph is what someone wants in a touring bike I would advise looking elsewhere rather than hopping it up trying to make it into something it isn't. Just buy a K1600GTL or Gold Wing 1800.

I normally rent one for a few days when visiting my parents at Myrtle Beach over Christmas and try to get a different model every year. I find them adequate from 0 to 30 but passing is downright scary. More show than go. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Delaware.Dave · Jun 25, 2012

rockbottom said:
I normally rent one for a few days when visiting my parents at Myrtle Beach over Christmas and try to get a different model every year. I find them adequate from 0 to 30 but passing is downright scary. More show than go. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Probably because you are used to a bike that has a more aggressive roll-on-acceleration. I split my time between a R1100RT and a Harley ElectraGlide Limited, and while they are very different in the saddle, I find I can pass anything I want on the Harley. The Harley is all stock. I adapt my riding style to the bike I'm on.

Delaware.Dave · Jun 25, 2012

R1200RClassic said:
curious, have you ridden a 2012 RT yet? There is a tremendous improvement in smoothness between the late 90's and current model boxers (I'm not sure about the other engines, but I assume same).. You might put the Harley up for sale if you do.

There was an old saying in the GoldWing crowd. "Don't test drive one because you'll buy it."

I suspect that would be the case with me testing an R1200RT. I already like it, and I'm considering one a few years from now, but I don't need to replace the R1100RT just yet.

Delaware.Dave · Jun 25, 2012

ClassicVW said:
I'm certainly no Harley fan but I agree with milo, not a fair comparison. Your bikes are still '81 and '96. You probably could have gotten Harleys in those years for a similar price. And, IMO, you can't compare a 1981 anything to a 2012 anything.

Agreed. If year was no factor, and I wanted to judge the bikes I currently own, I'd be nuts to keep the BMW. Between the stories of the Hall Effect Sensors, the engine surge, the "pop out" oil sight gauge, and the horrific spline lube (already experienced that), she's much more brittle than any bike of any manufacturer I've had before. but I'm not even thinking of selling her.

Every machine has week points and strong points. Aircraft I've flown are no different. Neither are cars. The territorial nature people have about these machines is just as strong in those groups too. Most of their biases are also incorrect.

Delaware.Dave · Jun 25, 2012

brewmeister said:
here is my problem with harleys,cost ,my bro bought a 2012 road glide for about 23,000$. (my house only cost me 40,000)wow! I bought a 1996 (7800 original miles) and a 1981 r100rt (26,000 originals)all for less than 10,000 and these two bikes blow the doors off my bro's harley for less than half the price!hands down regaurdless of the harley mistique.now these days cost is high on lots of peoples list.imho harleys cost to much and so do new beemers ,especially when there is so many low milage bikes out there of much better design and quality.and then of course there are exceptions to everything.

How much does a spell-checker cost? :rolleyes

Delaware.Dave · Jun 25, 2012

MPMARTY said:
Bought an Ultra Classic last fall. Rode it once. Sold it at a $2500 loss just to get rid of it. Hated it. Bad brakes, no power, shook like it wanted to shed itself all over the road. I'm amazed these things run as well as they do and people put up with them.

You bought a motorcycle without a test ride or any research at all? :scratch

42906 · Jun 25, 2012

BC1100S said:
That's brake hp? At the wheel? I've never heard of a stock Harley squeezing out more than 65.

Here's one here. Stock was 64 point something. Pipes and stuff upped it to 70-something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETVtebOxHO8

My Street Rod engine is stock aside from a K&N air cleaner and a re-map. It put 102 horses to the rear tire but the mixture was so rich the mileage was awful. We leaned it out a bit (still thirsty at mid 30's) and it puts 98 horses to the rear tire.

42906 · Jun 25, 2012

rockbottom said:
My point was I've never understood spending $17-28K on a motorcycle and then having to spend several thousand more to upgrade the performance to the adequate level. But, I realize there are lots of people who do, so to each his own.

And you don't do exactly the same thing with a BMW? C'mon, be honest.

NI5L · Jun 25, 2012

Wow.....I thought this was a BMW forum, not a Harley apologist forum. :scratch

42906 · Jun 25, 2012

Delaware.Dave said:
There was an old saying in the GoldWing crowd. "Don't test drive one because you'll buy it."

I suspect that would be the case with me testing an R1200RT. I already like it, and I'm considering one a few years from now, but I don't need to replace the R1100RT just yet.

Eh, I rode some R-1200s, an F-800 and the K-1200S. The only one I thought was a better bike than my carefully modified old K-100RS was the K-1200S. The others weren't as smooth or refined as that old K bike (ok, it has been fettled to perfection by a guy who used built the prototypes of the K when he worked at BMW in research and is an amalgam of parts spanning about ten years of the flyinbg brick), nor as comfortable. The R's have no feedback through the bars and all the ABS bikes had numb feeling brakes.
The K-1200S was an amazing bike without ABS or ESA but the maintenance requires too much in the way of specialized tools and skills to be something I could maintain at home. I live over 140 miles from the nearest BMW dealership so the ability to perform all routine maintenance in my garage is essential.
The Harley Street Rod turned out to be far more refined than any R bike ever was, expecially as the revs climb. It has a distinct German feel to it, outstanding feedback from the front tire, neutral steering, plenty of cornering clearance, tremendous brakes (BMW should have this kind of feedback), a compliant suspension and you can walk the back tire with the throttle in corners. Routine maintenance is simple enough for my skills (access to the valve covers to check valve clearances is a bit sporty but you figure it out quickly) and you don't need computers for any item of routine maintenance. Fastener quality is as good as BMW, and very German. So I bought the Street Rod and never looked back. After five years with it I am quite certain it will last as long or longer than any modern BMW. With their accessory saddlebags, a tank bag and windshield I can approach BMW levels of day to day utility. Their accessory Supersport Windshield has less buffet than the wind tunnel tested fairing on my K bike, and I am officially spoiled by carbon fiber drive belts.
But please don't call me a Harley rider.

rockbottom · Jun 26, 2012

42906 said:
And you don't do exactly the same thing with a BMW? C'mon, be honest.

I'd be willing to bet my house that the average BMW rider doesn't do 50% of the aftermarket customization that the average Harley rider does. And I suspect that very little BMW aftermarket customization is for increased power since nearly all of them are adequate "out of the box." I think most BMW aftermarket customization focuses on comfort and safety while most Harley customization is for aesthetics, increased noise, or engine performance.

Let me add again that this isn't intended as criticism. I considered buying a Harley twice, once when I was first considering riding and once when I'd gotten frustrated with the mechanical problems I was having with a F800ST. My two riding buddies are both Harley guys. One is a fully blown fanatic that doesn't down a single bit of gear or apparel that isn't Harley brand. (We've had some beer stoked conversations about THAT peccadillo). But the whole Harley culture, which focuses on a look and sound rather than performance or comfort, just isn't for me.

I mused a bit about the difference between American and European motorcycle culture on my blog recently.

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