• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

Harley Davidson

I met a guy at the Antique Motorcycle rally (AMCA) in Denton, NC in May that had a 3 year old Harley Full Dresser with 150,000 miles on it, and never any problems - just change the oil and renew the brakes and tires. The "real" riders of Harleys have a great respect for Beemers and are quite ready to compliment them. What we all seek is a good ride and value for our money. Another guy I met walked over (he had a '76 R75/6) and was admiring my RT. We talked of the many runs he'd done back and forth from Florida to California on the R75 and what a fine bike it is. He mentioned that he'd always ridden old Indian Chiefs (and still has a few) but that as he got older, he wanted a smoother ride. Most of the folks where I work ride Harleys and are some are so-called 'Rounders like me. I know for a fact that they pay no where near the maintenance costs that I do, but, on the other hand, their Harleys generally cost way more than my Beemer. Let each ride their own and make their own justifications for same...I like all motorcycles - each has their charm and place. There are "lemon" stories no matter the brand and it's up to the manufacturer to make good on the warranty.
 
I don't understand how a 103 ci motor(1600+ ? cc's?)putting out around 100 hp at / cc's when my 1100 cc rt puts out 90 or so hp with only 1100 cc's.:dunno
The difference is the rpm's. The 1649cc K16 makes 160 HP, revs to 8500 rpm. The 103ci Harley doesn't go nearly that high, and HP is proportional to torque x rpm.

A more fair comparison is to compare the engines' torque curves -- while the K16 is surprisingly strong on the low end/mid-range, I'd guess the 103ci engine is quite the stump puller at low revs (where most of us ride 99% of the time). I would not be surprised to see the K16 and the 103ci motor with similar torque/HP numbers in the 1500-4500 range.

Of course, while the engines may be comparable on the low end, having to shlep along 200+ more pounds of HD iron and chrome would make any direct comparison between the bikes a laugh-fest.
 
The "weave" went away with the new frame. At least this is the case on my 09.

I bought an 1800 Gold Wing 12 years ago because Harley tourers had three problems which were unacceptable to me. They didn't handle well, the brakes were weak, and they were simply under powered for 2-up riding. They now have Brembo brakes, new frame since 09, and the 96" and 103" engines give them enough power. I find it *much* more comfortable than the Gold Wing.

I owned a 1500 GoldWing for 9 years. When it was time to change, I tested an 1800 Wing. They were having engine heat issues then, and all the bags were smaller than the 1500s were. Newer didn't mean better. I changed to a 2007 Ultra Classic and never looked back. Unfortunately, the Ultra was totalled out from under me. After my broken shoulder healed, I bought my 1999 R1100RT first, then my 2010 ElectraGlide Limited a few months later.

As good as the 2007 Harley was, the 2010 is better in every respect. I switch between my two bikes at will, sometimes riding both on the same day. I'd hate to choose between the two, however, I could see my Limited sharing a garage with a R1200RT someday.
 
And "shut" a euro plant down for 6 - 8 weeks or so, for employees vacation....
whats that gotta cost!

Hey F14Rio... your driveway made me eyes water!!!
 
Last edited:
I owned a 1500 GoldWing for 9 years. When it was time to change, I tested an 1800 Wing. They were having engine heat issues then, and all the bags were smaller than the 1500s were. Newer didn't mean better. I changed to a 2007 Ultra Classic and never looked back. Unfortunately, the Ultra was totalled out from under me. After my broken shoulder healed, I bought my 1999 R1100RT first, then my 2010 ElectraGlide Limited a few months later.

As good as the 2007 Harley was, the 2010 is better in every respect. I switch between my two bikes at will, sometimes riding both on the same day. I'd hate to choose between the two, however, I could see my Limited sharing a garage with a R1200RT someday.

curious, have you ridden a 2012 RT yet? There is a tremendous improvement in smoothness between the late 90's and current model boxers (I'm not sure about the other engines, but I assume same).. You might put the Harley up for sale if you do. ;)
 
Isn't labor even more expensive in Germany?

way, way more expensive... that's why when I hear this BS about unions in the US ruining the auto industry I laugh.... you haven't seen unions until you've seen the EU.. You can blame GM's top brass / management for any problems they had at GM... not the union, heck the Ford unions had the same benefits and they didn't break the company.
 
way, way more expensive... that's why when I hear this BS about unions in the US ruining the auto industry I laugh.... you haven't seen unions until you've seen the EU.. You can blame GM's top brass / management for any problems they had at GM... not the union, heck the Ford unions had the same benefits and they didn't break the company.

And I laugh when the forum goes off on union rants.

H-D has renegotiated, reduced and cut union jobs and contracts and closed some assembly and manufacturing plants over the past four years. This has contributed to maintaining and improving profitability for the company and investors. Ibn 2012 a bigger drains on corporate profits are found in legacy capital expenses and corporate structures.

A basic Adam Smith economics have more to do with H-D economics than anything union. Prices, as a separate yet related issue, have been maintained and increased by getting product inventories in line with market demand that supports prices that will yield the sales and profit margin desired by dealers and the company.

BMW has managed staffing levels, inventory and production issues very aggressively. The staffing numbers assigned to the motorcycle segment have remained relatively constant over the same time that H-D was ramping up then cutting staff. The fluctuation has been less than 10 employees during that period.
Both BMW management and unions have accepted that they must manage prices to compete in the EU and worldwide to survive and grow products and markets as a niche builder. The S1000RR pricing is an example of this.
 
We make parts for harleys, I have to test them. What a horrible job.:groovy

The newer bikes are very very good. I may have one someday.

Rod
 
That's brake hp? At the wheel? I've never heard of a stock Harley squeezing out more than 65.

Here's one here. Stock was 64 point something. Pipes and stuff upped it to 70-something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETVtebOxHO8

wow. in 30 years, that's it for performance gains?

my "built" '71 shovel FLH (.05 over pistons, Branch heads, Andrews A cam, Manley valves, etc etc) dynoe'd at 62 hp in 1980. 30 years later tehy are still diddling around at nearly teh same levels? and BMW has gone from about 62 hp in 1980 to well over 100 in the same basic engine design?
it was true then when we said "we don't care how they do it in Japan (or Italy, or Germany)- it ain't a harley"- which was the usual writeoff for why we were willing to accept such poor performance and power, and is apparently still true today.
 
Or...

You can pull out the "Screaming Eagle Performance" Catalog.... order up,
pull in to one of the MANY dealer shops where well trained folks will
vastly improve performance... no chrome required!
CASH or credit required ... just like BMW's

Caution: Aim straight & hold on when you leave.... its a different bike!

01FLTR
04R1150R
07VictoryVegas
 
Bought an Ultra Classic last fall. Rode it once. Sold it at a $2500 loss just to get rid of it. Hated it. Bad brakes, no power, shook like it wanted to shed itself all over the road. I'm amazed these things run as well as they do and people put up with them.
 
You can pull out the "Screaming Eagle Performance" Catalog.... order up,
pull in to one of the MANY dealer shops where well trained folks will
vastly improve performance... no chrome required!
CASH or credit required ... just like BMW's

Caution: Aim straight & hold on when you leave.... its a different bike!

01FLTR
04R1150R
07VictoryVegas

My buddy's Screaming Eagle Ultra Classic makes about the same horsepower as my R1200R. With 400 lbs more weight and twice the money.
 
My buddy's Screaming Eagle Ultra Classic makes about the same horsepower as my R1200R. With 400 lbs more weight and twice the money.

All this talk about performance/weight vs cost geesh. If that's your lust just go buy a GSXR 600 and dump your R1200 or Harley which cost double the amount.
 
Back
Top