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Thread: Harley Davidson

  1. #16
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    Not really fair to compare paying $23,000 for a 2012 RG to a 31 year old BMW for $10,000. Comparing the cost of ownership, I'll argue Harley's are generally less expensive than BMW's. And as far as comparing the bikes themselves it's simply apples and oranges. They're both good motorcycles, but they're designed to different standards and to a different market.
    I can only go by what a friend said when we visited the new BMW dealership in Salem, Virginia a few weeks ago. He rides a new Harley. Even though we were looking a a K1600GTL, he said "I always thought BMWs cost more than Harleys but I was wrong."
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

  2. #17
    Registered User K1600_gtl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osbornk View Post
    I can only go by what a friend said when we visited the new BMW dealership in Salem, Virginia a few weeks ago. He rides a new Harley. Even though we were looking a a K1600GTL, he said "I always thought BMWs cost more than Harleys but I was wrong."
    it's interesting but I think BMW has done a good job holding price down considering the price of all the other makes now, even some of the Japanese bikes are getting up there... Any stigma about price of BMW's is more image that fact...
    2016 K1600GTL - All Optons
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  3. #18
    Registered User 39520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1200RClassic View Post
    it's interesting but I think BMW has done a good job holding price down considering the price of all the other makes now, even some of the Japanese bikes are getting up there... Any stigma about price of BMW's is more image that fact...
    Yes, the RR is a great example. I ordered one about 18 months before they were made, no price given. I assumed I was gonna pay about $20k, about average for an equivalent Ducati. Imagine my surprise when I paid less than $14k.
    Ub
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  4. #19
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewmeister View Post
    less than 10,000 for BOTH! yes it is about money,the number 1(or 2 or 3) cause of divorice.
    Considering current prices for new BMW bikes, I would definitely go used. Of course, I'm continually baffled by the market support for the price of new Harley's and, now, BMW's.

    That's just my opinion.....
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
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  5. #20
    Registered User f14rio's Avatar
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    all three of my bikes...

    ...are equally reliable, rideable and great values.



    bmw relies on the reliability of '60's and '70's vintage airheads for their reputation a bit too much. that quality difference is long gone.

    harley beats them hands down in the dealer support/network category. harley dealers usually just sell harleys. my bmw dealer sells about 12 (sic) other makes.

    http://www.goldcoast-motorsports.com...e_category.asp


    whose mechs do you think are more familiar with the hardware they service?
    "Enemy fighters at 2 o'clock!...Roger, What should i do until then?"

    2010 r1200r, 2009 harley crossbones, 2008 triumph/sidecar, 1970 norton commando 750

  6. #21
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    I met a guy at the Antique Motorcycle rally (AMCA) in Denton, NC in May that had a 3 year old Harley Full Dresser with 150,000 miles on it, and never any problems - just change the oil and renew the brakes and tires. The "real" riders of Harleys have a great respect for Beemers and are quite ready to compliment them. What we all seek is a good ride and value for our money. Another guy I met walked over (he had a '76 R75/6) and was admiring my RT. We talked of the many runs he'd done back and forth from Florida to California on the R75 and what a fine bike it is. He mentioned that he'd always ridden old Indian Chiefs (and still has a few) but that as he got older, he wanted a smoother ride. Most of the folks where I work ride Harleys and are some are so-called 'Rounders like me. I know for a fact that they pay no where near the maintenance costs that I do, but, on the other hand, their Harleys generally cost way more than my Beemer. Let each ride their own and make their own justifications for same...I like all motorcycles - each has their charm and place. There are "lemon" stories no matter the brand and it's up to the manufacturer to make good on the warranty.
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  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by brewmeister View Post
    I don't understand how a 103 ci motor(1600+ ? cc's?)putting out around 100 hp at / cc's when my 1100 cc rt puts out 90 or so hp with only 1100 cc's.
    You sure the 103 is that much? The 96 put out about 65 ponies.

  8. #23
    Registered User mneblett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewmeister View Post
    I don't understand how a 103 ci motor(1600+ ? cc's?)putting out around 100 hp at / cc's when my 1100 cc rt puts out 90 or so hp with only 1100 cc's.
    The difference is the rpm's. The 1649cc K16 makes 160 HP, revs to 8500 rpm. The 103ci Harley doesn't go nearly that high, and HP is proportional to torque x rpm.

    A more fair comparison is to compare the engines' torque curves -- while the K16 is surprisingly strong on the low end/mid-range, I'd guess the 103ci engine is quite the stump puller at low revs (where most of us ride 99% of the time). I would not be surprised to see the K16 and the 103ci motor with similar torque/HP numbers in the 1500-4500 range.

    Of course, while the engines may be comparable on the low end, having to shlep along 200+ more pounds of HD iron and chrome would make any direct comparison between the bikes a laugh-fest.
    Mark Neblett
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  9. #24
    Left Coast Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewmeister View Post
    I just checked,it's 98 HP for the 103CI engine,1680 cc's.
    versus 1100(1098) cc's oilhead with 92 horsepower and 578 cc's less , this is what i'm talking about.
    That's brake hp? At the wheel? I've never heard of a stock Harley squeezing out more than 65.

    Here's one here. Stock was 64 point something. Pipes and stuff upped it to 70-something.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETVtebOxHO8

  10. #25
    Delaware.Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    The "weave" went away with the new frame. At least this is the case on my 09.

    I bought an 1800 Gold Wing 12 years ago because Harley tourers had three problems which were unacceptable to me. They didn't handle well, the brakes were weak, and they were simply under powered for 2-up riding. They now have Brembo brakes, new frame since 09, and the 96" and 103" engines give them enough power. I find it *much* more comfortable than the Gold Wing.
    I owned a 1500 GoldWing for 9 years. When it was time to change, I tested an 1800 Wing. They were having engine heat issues then, and all the bags were smaller than the 1500s were. Newer didn't mean better. I changed to a 2007 Ultra Classic and never looked back. Unfortunately, the Ultra was totalled out from under me. After my broken shoulder healed, I bought my 1999 R1100RT first, then my 2010 ElectraGlide Limited a few months later.

    As good as the 2007 Harley was, the 2010 is better in every respect. I switch between my two bikes at will, sometimes riding both on the same day. I'd hate to choose between the two, however, I could see my Limited sharing a garage with a R1200RT someday.

  11. #26
    Delaware.Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    That's brake hp? At the wheel? I've never heard of a stock Harley squeezing out more than 65.

    Here's one here. Stock was 64 point something. Pipes and stuff upped it to 70-something.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETVtebOxHO8
    The stock Dresser, like the Limited I own, is about 75hp.

  12. #27
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osbornk View Post
    he said "I always thought BMWs cost more than Harleys but I was wrong."
    Lot of assembly labor cost in made in USA stuff.
    Kent Christensen
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    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  13. #28
    Hangered... but aimed out flyhi2cfar's Avatar
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    And "shut" a euro plant down for 6 - 8 weeks or so, for employees vacation....
    whats that gotta cost!

    Hey F14Rio... your driveway made me eyes water!!!
    Last edited by flyhi2cfar; 06-22-2012 at 02:21 AM. Reason: May have peed pants while eyes watered

  14. #29
    Registered User K1600_gtl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delaware.Dave View Post
    I owned a 1500 GoldWing for 9 years. When it was time to change, I tested an 1800 Wing. They were having engine heat issues then, and all the bags were smaller than the 1500s were. Newer didn't mean better. I changed to a 2007 Ultra Classic and never looked back. Unfortunately, the Ultra was totalled out from under me. After my broken shoulder healed, I bought my 1999 R1100RT first, then my 2010 ElectraGlide Limited a few months later.

    As good as the 2007 Harley was, the 2010 is better in every respect. I switch between my two bikes at will, sometimes riding both on the same day. I'd hate to choose between the two, however, I could see my Limited sharing a garage with a R1200RT someday.
    curious, have you ridden a 2012 RT yet? There is a tremendous improvement in smoothness between the late 90's and current model boxers (I'm not sure about the other engines, but I assume same).. You might put the Harley up for sale if you do.
    2016 K1600GTL - All Optons
    2012 R1200R - Classic / ESA II, ABS II, ASC, Heated Grips, Sports Windshield, Computer. - GONE
    2005 Honda Shadow 750 Spirit - GONE

  15. #30
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Lot of assembly labor cost in made in USA stuff.
    Isn't labor even more expensive in Germany?
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

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