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Thread: 2005 R1200RT Cracked Rear Wheel Flange at the Wheel Mounting Studs

  1. #16
    Registered User David13's Avatar
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    Could you please forward your post to someone at BMW?
    dc

  2. #17
    Registered User ExGMan's Avatar
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    BMW MOA Consumer Liaison

    There seems to be a person on the volunteer staff of the MOA named Jim Wright. He bears the title of "Consumer Liaison." Perhaps he could address this issue with BMW NA?
    John Gamel - BMW MOA Consumer Liaison
    2015 Ebony Metallic R1200RT
    Watching the sunrise outdoors statistically increases your odds of having a good day. And needing a nap after lunch.

  3. #18
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    When these cracks first appeared in the '05 models, ( I had them on my 05RT) I wondered if it was from some old habits of folks/techs using 105Nm torque values of the previous series of drives on the new EVO drives. Basically doubling the value cannot be a good thing on that spider.

    I had to pull the manual out on a fairly competent wrench who was still using that value on the 60Nm required torque. Steel bolts in a steel flange vs, steel bolts in that aluminum spider. He said I was wrong and he used the 105 setting on "everything"

    The original BMWNA recommended fix for mine was to file the cracks smooth as no one had the equipment or knowledge on how to exchange the flange at the time
    Steve Henson-Mod Team and SABMWRA Prez

    Be decisive, right or wrong.The road of life is paved with
    flat squirrels who couldn't make a decision~unknown

  4. #19
    i just checked my 07 rt and i also have cracks at 37k.will have to wait till the snow melts to take it to dealer. i called the dealer and they haven't heard of any problem!

  5. #20
    jay1622
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    Warranty Update

    I heard from the dealer today. I was told BMW/NA would cover 1/3 of the cost for the parts; I am responsible for everything else including labor. Not being sure what the labor rate is now a days, I told them to order the part and do the work so long as it didn't exceed $375. What do y'all think? I mean, I'd have to buy the parts anyway and the time it would take me to do the work is worth the one or two Ben Franklins.

    I just hope they're nice to my FD. It's been very good to me.

    Updates to follow...

  6. #21
    Registered User David13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by henzilla View Post
    When these cracks first appeared in the '05 models, ( I had them on my 05RT) I wondered if it was from some old habits of folks/techs using 105Nm torque values of the previous series of drives on the new EVO drives. Basically doubling the value cannot be a good thing on that spider.

    I had to pull the manual out on a fairly competent wrench who was still using that value on the 60Nm required torque. Steel bolts in a steel flange vs, steel bolts in that aluminum spider. He said I was wrong and he used the 105 setting on "everything"

    The original BMWNA recommended fix for mine was to file the cracks smooth as no one had the equipment or knowledge on how to exchange the flange at the time


    Henzilla
    It just goes to show what the truth is with these so called "perfeshunals" and "eggspurts".
    dc

  7. #22
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by henzilla View Post
    When these cracks first appeared in the '05 models, ( I had them on my 05RT) I wondered if it was from some old habits of folks/techs using 105Nm torque values of the previous series of drives on the new EVO drives. Basically doubling the value cannot be a good thing on that spider.
    The photos show cracks around the brake rotor mounting holes, NOT the wheel mounting holes.
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  8. #23
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    Well, duh...you are correct.

    I guess I was thinking about wheel lugs.

    I broke a Torx socket off in a 05RT wheel bolt the other day that someone put on with an air gun or at 105Nm...not mine...the wheel wasn't , the socket was. I had to use a breaker bar on the other 4 with another socket They were WAY too tight!
    Steve Henson-Mod Team and SABMWRA Prez

    Be decisive, right or wrong.The road of life is paved with
    flat squirrels who couldn't make a decision~unknown

  9. #24
    Registered User David13's Avatar
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    My understanding is that they crack at both bolt locations.
    dc

  10. #25
    jay1622
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    Part Replaced

    Well it's fixed... I got the steel part in there with the spacer, a new lock ring and new rotor mounting bolts. Of the $502 it should of cost (debateable), BMW covered $101.87. Assuming I would not have received a discount on the parts, it cost me a Franklin to do the work. And that's fine by me. Not bad I guess for a seven year old bike with 40K+ miles.

    Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Nice to see I'm not alone. Now, what's all this talk about the fuel pump thing? A few of my buds said I should travel with a spare.

    I think I'll go find that on another thread though.

    Again... Thanks ya'll!
    Last edited by jay1622; 03-09-2012 at 07:09 PM.

  11. #26
    God? What god? roborider's Avatar
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    I travel with a spare antenna ring (for the possible "EWS" failure) and a spare fuel pump CONTROLLER. I replace my controller with a new one (seems better made than the original) so I keep the working original under the seat.

    I think I'm more likely to use these parts to rescue a fellow rider more than my own bike.

    You can also buy, or make, a fuel pump controller bypass cable to use in an emergency. You'll find a lot posted on these topics.
    Rob C. , Raleigh, NC
    '10 R12RT, R90/6
    2007 CBR600RR & 09 V-Star
    Suzuki DR 350

  12. #27
    Registered User David13's Avatar
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    Yes. Get a spare, or the bypass cable. I'm looking for a spare now. Mine went out Saturday. 50 mile tow. In Mexico.
    I don't like the bypass cable. Might be a problem.
    But do your research and planning on that fuel pump controller before it goes out.
    dc

  13. #28
    Subject drift... now talking about the fuel pump controller.

    Quote Originally Posted by David13 View Post
    Yes. Get a spare, or the bypass cable.
    Or learn how to bypass the fuel pump controller in the field[1]. You might also want to know how to bypass the side stand switch in the field.

    [1] remove controller. Cut off connector that goes from controller to fuel pump. Wire said connector to the connector that normally feeds the controller:

    brown (top connector) -> blue (bottom connector)
    blue/green (top connector) -> yellow (bottom connector)
    With this wiring the fuel pump will be controlled by the ignition switch, but will always be running at full power.

  14. #29
    Registered User David13's Avatar
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    There are commercially available bypass cables. Some are direct drive onto the battery. But that means you have it running all the time, even with the bike off.
    So the short method is the best.
    Does anybody have the links for more on that, and the link for bypassing the side stand switch?
    Thanks
    dc

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer7 View Post
    You don't have to be a professional metallurgist to see that these problems are caused by the same basic issue that leads to cracking of the plastic fuel pump flanges on various models as reported by many owners.

    Someone ought to teach engineering 101 to the responsible Germans- namely that a screw thread is a levered wedge that exerts expansion pressure in whatever threaded bit is holding it. Therefore the receiver has to be strong enough to resist the force as installed plus whatever load increase it sees while in operation.

    Just as the plastic pump flange is the wrong material (a new part has a metal reinforcing ring). this lightweight aluminum bit is also the wrong material in addition to being too thin at a critical point. Luckily, the manner in which it cracks is unlikely to cause immediate and potentially catastrophic separation. The receiver just "pops" to relieve the stress and the crack can't propagate for any distance. Even if all bolt locations were to crack simultaneously, immediate wheel separation is not probable.

    In this case, they took the cheap and easy way out for the fix, apparently, with a steel part (both more ductile and stronger so unlikely to crack) rather than using a more expensive solution which could also have been a proper alloy forged aluminum piece.

    Germans do a pretty good job at a lot of stuff but the number of basic engineering goofs on R models demonstrates an organizational weakness at BMW- failure to do adequate team-based engineering reviews prior to approving bits for production. Too much reliance on what's drawable in a CAD system and not enough on human knowledge based review to ensure it will work and be durable.

    One has to wonder how many of this type of silly choice is buried in the design of new and untested models like the K1600.
    Racer7 has it right. If you look at the right side of the lug (as shown in the photos), the hole almost breaks out of that undercut. That's a bad design detail (large stress concentration for the engineers in the audience) which will contribute to fatigue cracks and premature failures. I'd be interested if the new hub removed that undercut in addition to just changing the material.

    Sometimes even good engineers make mistakes. The best ones learn something from them.

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