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BMW incurs 3 million dollar penalty

71234 -

How about some smilies on your post?? Remember, no buying or selling directly through the forum. Just a friendly reminder, eh! :thumb
 
Sadly, financial punishment seems to be the only way to get BMW to sit up and take notice of disgruntled customers.

There are many who are rightfully frustrated by BMW's ambivilence towards issues with final drives, fuel strips, ESA components, etc.
Simple solution to financially punish BMW, stop buying them.
 
Simple solution to financially punish BMW, stop buying them.

Problem with that is that most of us are here because we like the BMW brand.

80% of my R1200RT is an awesome motorcycle.

The 20% that BMW 'over-engineered' things (I believe the cliche "Too smart for your britches!" might apply here), i.e. the FD, fuel strips, ESA - not rocket science to fix those issues.

Stubborn Germans. :banghead
 
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My BMWs have been rock solid (as my Honda's, Yamahas have been also). But assuming the woes Wildpig has suffered (from his other posts) are correct, he's had a bad experience for certain.
 
Problem with that is that most of us are here because we like the BMW brand.
On that we are very much in agreement.

As long as the BMW brand builds motorcycles that I feel meet my needs and desires better than any other brand, I will continue to buy them. When they don't, I'll buy something else. For example, I was seriously considering purchasing the new 650 Serato until I checked one out. I was hoping BMW was going to make a more serious offroader than they did for the "Dakar reborn." Therefore, it's higly unlikely I will buy one. If enough people agree, they'll have to reassess their product. Please note that reassess doesn't mean agree with me and make a better offroad 650...it might mean making none at all. Just as it's my choice to purchase it or not, it's their choice to make one or not.

I used the word "punish" only because it was what you used. Personally, I'm not out to punish anyone for making a product I don't like; I look at it from the other end. I reward those who create the best product for me and in aggregate we determine the direction of products by making them successful or not. More specifically to the question at hand...

If a company makes changes in their product line, even if that results in a "lower quality product," and everyone still buys it, why change back? Clearly the market valued whatever the change was over "quality." :thumb
 
On that we are very much in agreement.

As long as the BMW brand builds motorcycles that I feel meet my needs and desires better than any other brand, I will continue to buy them. When they don't, I'll buy something else. For example, I was seriously considering purchasing the new 650 Serato until I checked one out. I was hoping BMW was going to make a more serious offroader than they did for the "Dakar reborn." Therefore, it's higly unlikely I will buy one. If enough people agree, they'll have to reassess their product. Please note that reassess doesn't mean agree with me and make a better offroad 650...it might mean making none at all. Just as it's my choice to purchase it or not, it's their choice to make one or not.

I used the word "punish" only because it was what you used. Personally, I'm not out to punish anyone for making a product I don't like; I look at it from the other end. I reward those who create the best product for me and in aggregate we determine the direction of products by making them successful or not. More specifically to the question at hand...

If a company makes changes in their product line, even if that results in a "lower quality product," and everyone still buys it, why change back? Clearly the market valued whatever the change was over "quality." :thumb

Astute observations. We should all approach consumerism with such discipline.

I used the term 'punish' in the legal sense of "monetary damages as a consequence of a corporation's actions or inactions, as they apply to consumer safety."

Perhaps I should have used a less aggressive term. :dunno
 
Simple solution to financially punish BMW, stop buying them.

Hilarious!

Just this week Lexus is announced as the "most reliable" luxury car in USA.

Of course they were outsold by BMW (and Mercedes) in 2011.

Possibly many bike owners aren't aware of BMW car reliability. Did you know, for example, that most BMW mechanics recommend for recent model cars complete replacement of cooling system components every 60K miles? That's radiator, water pump, thermostat (electronic) and overflow tank. This is not published as scheduled maintenance but it is obviously good preventive maintenance--5 seconds freeway running with a cooling system failure = a warped 6 cyl engine cylinder head. Would you call this a reliable car?

Now, it should be obvious that in comparison to a BMW car a Lexus is simply a refrigerator and not very interesting.

Yet, somehow BMW motorcycle riders--at least many posting here--think they should be sold "refrigerators" at their BMW motorcycle dealer. No, "refrigerator" motorcycles are sold elsewhere if at all.

Like the cars, BMW motorcycles are selling well, thank you. Loss of the "refrigerator" market isn't seen as much of a problem. Again: in 2011 S1000RR was top selling BMW bike--NOT a refrigerator and surely that's nowhere in the radar of those buying them.

Your head will stop hurting when you stop beating it against the wall.
 
:thumb
Cheering any financial punishment of BMW seems counterproductive to a group of individuals who, by their very membership in this club, choose to champion this brand of motorcycle as their own.

Sadly, financial punishment seems to be the only way to get BMW to sit up and take notice of disgruntled customers.

There are many who are rightfully frustrated by BMW's ambivilence towards issues with final drives, fuel strips, ESA components, etc.

While I wish to see BMW flourish as a motorcycle brand here in the USA, I'm sure as a corporation, it watches its bottom line carefully and will eventually need to reassess its approach to these fines and the pending NHTSA investigation into their post-2004 motorcycle line final drives.

Let's hope that rather than stockpiling funds to settle small-to-medium sized penalties levied against them, they invest it in a less complex and more reliable FD, fuel gauge and other tweaking to our beloved mounts. :german

Well said, Mr. Greenwald. :thumb

I guess some of us feel frustrated mainly because we love the marque for several reasons and feel let down by the perceived disregard and arrogance displayed by BMW NA. All we want is a product we can be proud to own  and typically pay high $$$ for it.
 
Hilarious!

Just this week Lexus is announced as the "most reliable" luxury car in USA.

Of course they were outsold by BMW (and Mercedes) in 2011.

Possibly many bike owners aren't aware of BMW car reliability. Did you know, for example, that most BMW mechanics recommend for recent model cars complete replacement of cooling system components every 60K miles? That's radiator, water pump, thermostat (electronic) and overflow tank. This is not published as scheduled maintenance but it is obviously good preventive maintenance--5 seconds freeway running with a cooling system failure = a warped 6 cyl engine cylinder head. Would you call this a reliable car?

Now, it should be obvious that in comparison to a BMW car a Lexus is simply a refrigerator and not very interesting.

Yet, somehow BMW motorcycle riders--at least many posting here--think they should be sold "refrigerators" at their BMW motorcycle dealer. No, "refrigerator" motorcycles are sold elsewhere if at all.

Like the cars, BMW motorcycles are selling well, thank you. Loss of the "refrigerator" market isn't seen as much of a problem. Again: in 2011 S1000RR was top selling BMW bike--NOT a refrigerator and surely that's nowhere in the radar of those buying them.

Your head will stop hurting when you stop beating it against the wall.
Yes, like their cars, their bikes are selling well. That argues that all of the complints in this thread and others about reliability, etc. are wrong....the market values something else more and BMW's increasing sales suggest they are correctly estimating what the market desires.

If you re-read what I actually wrote, you will notice that I did not argue that BMW should make "refrigerators." FYI: I just bought my second BMW, which is a HP2 Sport...kind of the antithesis of a "refrigerator."

All I did point out to the people complaining that BMW isn't making the bike they want is, buy the bike that fits your needs/desires best. If that is BMW, awesome. If not, that's fine too. Until the day I own 51% of BMW Motorrad, they will likely never make the perfect gunderwood BWM. We all have to choose between a variety of imperfect options. Faster, better, or cheaper, choose two.
 
All I did point out to the people complaining that BMW isn't making the bike they want is, buy the bike that fits your needs/desires best. If that is BMW, awesome. If not, that's fine too.

I'm not sure that applies to everyone. There are lemons for everything mass produced regardless of the company. It's very frustrating for those who unfortunately end up with a lemon and are given the run around. Granted that happens with just about every manufacturer out there--not just BMW. It's one thing to have the lemon be a $50 item versus a $15,000, $20,000, or more vehicle. For the $50 item, they usually just give you a new item--problem solved. However for the vehicles, manufacturers prefer to repair them. In some cases, it doesn't seem to work very well. I've heard that car manufactures take "lemons" in states with lemon laws and re-sell them in states without lemon laws. I feel sorry for those in states without lemon laws. So, until there are better and more uniform laws or expectations on how manufacturers deal with lemons, I don't see things changing much.

Manufacturers are typically as quiet as possible with regards to problems with their vehicles and most do not want to pay out big sums for repairs. Think about Toyota's recent problems. They were very quite initially about the problems with their cars. Honda Civic Hybrid owners are unhappy about the misrepresenation of fuel economy. The class action settlement gets them $200. That's peanuts compared to the increased fuel costs and premium paid for those cars. I'm sure there are many more examples like those. BMW is no different.
 
Yes, like their cars, their bikes are selling well. That argues that all of the complints in this thread and others about reliability, etc. are wrong....the market values something else more and BMW's increasing sales suggest they are correctly estimating what the market desires.


BMW has been more successful at marketing their bikes in the last decade than any other brand except maybe H-D. Like H-D they are selling an image, although certainly not the same type of image. Remember the R1200RT intoductory video with the guy riding thru the fabulous fjord country of Norway? A beautiful sexy woman riding with him. And she's not some biker tart. This woman obviously has class. Possibly even owns her own company somewhere. A guy is sitting at home watching this and thinks, "all I have ever ridden is those boring Jap "refrigerators", maybe it's time I stepped up to a BMW."

So this guys buys a new R12 RT OR any other model for that matter. BMW's marketing was successful. But will this new BMW owner be happy enough with his purchase to become a repeat buyer if he happens to be unlucky enough to have final drive problems, which is not a certainty, but a possibilty. Problems with the fuel strip which is very likely. Plus brake issues that have occured on some models. And poor design like the instrument panel glare problem on R12rt. A problem I have yet to have on any other bike I have owned.

Or maybe the centerstand bolt shears and he drops the bike when that happens(this actually happened on my rt, though it didn't fall because I had the sidestand down.) Maybe this hypothetical guy decides that riding a "premium" brand is worth putting up with these idiosynchrisies, or maybe he goes back to a refrigerator because he doesn't need the drama.
 
Refrigerators fail. Compressors go bad, coolant leaks or the the water line to the ice maker breaks and floods the floor.
 
I've bought 3 Beemers, brand-new...never a regret. Are they perfect? No...but consider the alternative. First one, a '75 R60/6 I still have. The timing was set at the factory in Germany, and I've replaced the points once, after some 100,000 + miles. The front brake light switch never worked...I don't care. My 2003 CLC had 86,000 miles on it when it was rear-ended and totaled. It did have a failure at the rear drive seal. I had been watching for this as a known glitch. Yes, it had all of the regular maintenance. Dealer replaced the drive shaft input seal to the rear drive in addition to the big seal and gave me a 2 year, 24,000 mile warranty on the rear drive. Fair enough. R1200 RT has had a few switches replaced because of intermittent cruise control operation. I lost some time on the bike while it sat at the dealer, but it was eventually fixed right. I don't care. I ride every day in traffic, and these beemers have always been responsive and good machines that have proved to be tough over the long run.
 
Refrigerators fail. Compressors go bad, coolant leaks or the the water line to the ice maker breaks and floods the floor.

I have never had a refrigeraor fail (I'm 64) and I have always installed my icemakers properly so the line doesn't fail. Thats more than I can say for certain manufacturers.
 
Had a new Maytag refer fail less than a month after we bought it. Spoiled a couple hundred dollars worth of food and our large container of kool-aide got warm.cc:thumb
 
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