• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

  • Beginning April 1st, and running through April 30th, there is a new 2024 BMW MOA Election discussion area within The Club section of the forum. Within this forum area is also a sticky post that provides the ground rules for participating in the Election forum area. Also, the candidates statements are provided. Please read before joining the conversation, because the rules are very specific to maintain civility.

    The Election forum is here: Election Forum

Spline lube 2002 1150RT

I have seen posts where a seal was knocked on one side to cock it over for removal. Has anyone done this with the slave seal inside the slave cyl cavity? I have the entire unit heated up to 100 degrees and although the seal is pliable, it will not budge. Any ideas, I'm beat right now.

Update, finally have it removed. Apparently some sort of gasket sealer or adhesive was used on the outer walls of the seal and it was really stuck tight. I had to wrap it pretty hard to free it up and get it cocked on one end. Drilled a hole in the opposite end and pulled it with a screw imbedded. I'm trying to figure a way to remove the substantial amount of adhesive from the walls of the slave cyl. cavity where the seal rests. I would not have expected that this would be done at the factory. Oh well. Any good ideas out there for solvent for the adhesive? .
 

Attachments

  • Spline lube 9th days _013.jpg
    Spline lube 9th days _013.jpg
    40.9 KB · Views: 250
Last edited:
I tried Acetone and MEK, no good. Whatever the residue is, I can see an exact very distinct impression (including little ridges) of the seal on the outboard side of the cavity made by the outer surface of the seal. It is not on the shaft. Exactly what one would find if some adhesive or hardening gasket material was used. It is grey in color and will turn to powder if lightly scratched with a screw driver problem being with that is I don't want to scratch the aluminum seal baring surface.
 
I believe this is why this seal was adhered/liquid gasketed in. The little dot you see is one of 2 deep gouges in the sealing surface. This is the second dildo result I have found on this bike from the factory now that I have torn into it. When I replaced my pivot bearings with bushings, I found that the installer cocked the one bearing as it was being pressed or seated in. The result was a small pile of squashed aluminum in the base of the seat and the bearing never got to rest against the back properly. That I had to carefully grind out the excess aluminum.
 

Attachments

  • Spline lube 9th days _002_01.jpg
    Spline lube 9th days _002_01.jpg
    48.3 KB · Views: 213
Olsensan allow me to give you my two cents: After having struggled through your drama, should something go wrong, like a clutch or whatever, you can just take it apart and fix it! That's the great part about messing with these bikes. It just takes a little time and effort. And maybe a few bucks? Good job. Keep up the good work.
 
Well, the job is done and the feel of the clutch when shifting is much smoother and takes less pressure to squeeze the clutch on the grip. Nothing leaks, the innards are squeaky clean and I'm assured that all the hardware is torqued correctly. Best yet, that red loctite has been replaced with the medium blue. Why use the red, good grief, I have no idea. I actually had the threads come out with one m-8 bolt, still attached, great. Now its all blue and that is a good thing.

I've compiled a slew of pics detailing the sequence of events and position of wiring etc which I want to post here, maybe 5-8 per day so people can chime in. Total, maybe 25 shots. Thanks for all of your help during the procedure!:type
 
Spline Lube 2002 R1150RT

You caught my interest because I own this bike. My question is, is there any way to delay this major project? For example, if I change the rear drive, etc. oil frequently and with synthetic fluid, will that help. Comments VERY welcome. Thanks, All!
 
zorroscar said:
You caught my interest because I own this bike. My question is, is there any way to delay this major project? For example, if I change the rear drive, etc. oil frequently and with synthetic fluid, will that help. Comments VERY welcome. Thanks, All!
Click to expand...

I know of two options to delay the job an neither are particularly helpful:

Park the bike until you feel like dealing with this.

Put it off, keep riding, and hope for the best.

On a more helpful note, you can pull the starter motor to get a look t how much play the clutch disk has on the input shaft. That will give you an idea of how much wear has already taken place. Go to post 36 of the following thread for a link to a video showing the play in question: http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?t=57701&page=3


How many miles do you have on your bike? Is it also a 2002?
 
2002 R1150RT Spline Lube

Thanks for the reply - I have a 2002 R1150 RT with 36K miles on it. It was sitting for a year before I bought it with 32K miles on it - BIG mistake. This bike reacts poorly to sitting. It took me about $1,000 to get it running properly, and I'm just trying to avoid major "stuff" like the spline lube obviously is. If I can defer that job by frequent fluid changes, it's WELL worth it. Thanx!!
 
Hi Karl:

I did my first spline lube at 79,000 miles and they were fine.
Luck is involved.
YMMV

There are no fluid changes that would affect this issue.
 
2002 r1150 rt

Thanks, Mike - from the other posts, it sounds as though you're right on target about "luck" being the prime factor. I appreciate it.
 
zorroscar said:
If I can defer that job by frequent fluid changes, it's WELL worth it. Thanx!!
Click to expand...

Frequent fluid changes (with the correct oil) are nice (especially for your final drive), but have no impact on the splines. Our clutches are dry. sorry / welcome to the club.
 
R1150 RT Spline Lube

Thanx for taking the trouble to reply. Sounds like a good reason to line up a great mechanic aside from the dealer...Much appreciated!!
 
zorroscar said:
Thanx for taking the trouble to reply. Sounds like a good reason to line up a great mechanic aside from the dealer...Much appreciated!!
Click to expand...

look up Tom High on MOA website. not sure how close to Tampa he is, but could be worth a drive.
(someone else might know his business name, i'm not recalling it right now)
 
zorroscar said:
You caught my interest because I own this bike. My question is, is there any way to delay this major project? For example, if I change the rear drive, etc. oil frequently and with synthetic fluid, will that help. Comments VERY welcome. Thanks, All!
Click to expand...
As others have said, fluid changes have no effect on the splines. Others may disagree, but I believe you may get some benefit from application of moly grease to the splines in place via the opening made by removal of the starter motor. Paint the exposed splines with an artist's brush and moly grease. It may take more than one application to work itself into the hidden spline area, but I believe it works.
 
zorroscar said:
Thanks, Mike - from the other posts, it sounds as though you're right on target about "luck" being the prime factor. I appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Too much is left to "luck." The word should be "confidence" but that would imply consistently high quality on the part of the manufacturer.
 
m_stock10506 said:
As others have said, fluid changes have no effect on the splines. Others may disagree, but I believe you may get some benefit from application of moly grease to the splines in place via the opening made by removal of the starter motor. Paint the exposed splines with an artist's brush and moly grease. It may take more than one application to work itself into the hidden spline area, but I believe it works.
Click to expand...

I would disagree.
- The part of the splines you can see and reach with the starter out have no sliding parts on them in that area
- The clutch disk and it's hub slide forward from the exposed area
- The hub moves forward and away from the rear part of the splines you can see a very tiny amount so it's hard to imagine how any lube could work it's way forward and in there. There's nothing to move it forward.

Some have tried lubing with modified syringes to get some lube into the clutch hub. It's a long and laborious process and so far there are no reports of how much lube actually got into the sliding area where it's needed. You'd have to take it apart to find out. I could only see this method being marginally effective on splines that are already somewhat worn.

Bottom line is to lube them properly the transmission has to come out and you must fully expose the splines, clean them and lube them properly.

Problem is no one wants to take their transmission out after brush lubing or hypodermic lubing because avoiding that is why they did it that way in the first place!
 
- The part of the splines you can see and reach with the starter out have no sliding parts on them in that area
- The clutch disk and it's hub slide forward from the exposed area
- The hub moves forward and away from the rear part of the splines you can see a very tiny amount so it's hard to imagine how any lube could work it's way forward and in there. There's nothing to move it forward.



(Bottom line is to lube them properly the transmission has to come out and you must fully expose the splines, clean them and lube them properly.) I agree, I use to have the wishful thinking that you could just take the starter out and go that way, but after tearing it apart this winter I don't see how it could work when the hub don't slide over the splines you can see. And with the needle if it does get some lube in their and can't be that much. But that is just my opinion.
 
Since I haven't pulled the transmission, I can only report my anecdotal experience. I was having difficult down-shifting from 3-2 and 2-1. I know what that feels like - I had my splines self-destruct at 48K miles - the bike was new to me, one month.

After I painted my splines with Moly-60, it took about 40 - 50 miles of riding and then I could feel a noticeable smoothing out of the down-shifts. Removing the starter is easy enough, that I have done this procedure a few more times, usually when I have the fairing off to sync the TBs. I'm at 87K miles now and shifting is very smooth (for a 2001 R bike). I guess I won't know for sure until I pull the tranny or I lose another input spline.

What I do know is there was a noticeable improvement in down-shifting after I did the procedure. If it's impossible for the grease to migrate under the clutch hub, then this was a convenient coincidence.
 
I know the thought of doing this job is painful, it is a large commitment. After having done this once, although I do not look forward to the job in the future, I know now what needs to be done and the fear of the unknown is second rate. Take your time, take advantage of these threads and the experience and have at it. The rewards far outweigh the costs. What is crazy is after having done this I have gone back to check this and that even though I used a check list, mostly torqued fasteners. Insecurity I guess but now I'm sure nothing will come flying off the bike. I also just completed the throttle body sync'ing and brake fluid changes so a lot of good has come of it.
 
m_stock10506 said:
Since I haven't pulled the transmission, I can only report my anecdotal experience. I was having difficult down-shifting from 3-2 and 2-1. I know what that feels like - I had my splines self-destruct at 48K miles - the bike was new to me, one month.

After I painted my splines with Moly-60, it took about 40 - 50 miles of riding and then I could feel a noticeable smoothing out of the down-shifts. Removing the starter is easy enough, that I have done this procedure a few more times, usually when I have the fairing off to sync the TBs. I'm at 87K miles now and shifting is very smooth (for a 2001 R bike). I guess I won't know for sure until I pull the tranny or I lose another input spline.

What I do know is there was a noticeable improvement in down-shifting after I did the procedure. If it's impossible for the grease to migrate under the clutch hub, then this was a convenient coincidence.
Click to expand...
Interesting. In general a little bit of lube can go a long way, but you should probably renew it frequently.

How much backlash did you have in your spline - as measured in the tangential motion at the clutch disk outside diameter. (I realize you may not have done this, but it is a good thing to keep track of it as an indication of spline wear.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L
1994 R1100RS with 20k miles, - the transmission is worrying me
Replies
19
Views
715
lukaspriest
L
pauls1150
Adding Parallel Battery Cables
Replies
7
Views
2K
mikegalbicka
mikegalbicka
rocinante
Ignorant Newbie Wants BMW Buying Advice
2 3 4
Replies
72
Views
6K
globalrider
globalrider
A
2004 R1150RT: iABS issues, Bubbles in the Funnel tool...
Replies
6
Views
2K
adriancw
A
A
1985 K100RS, rough running
Replies
2
Views
1K
pglaves
pglaves
Back
Top