• Welcome Guest! If you are already a member of the BMW MOA, please log in to the forum in the upper right hand corner of this page. Check "Remember Me?" if you wish to stay logged in.

    We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMWMOA forum provides. Why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the club magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMWMOA offers?

    Want to read the MOA monthly magazine for free? Take a 3-month test ride of the magazine; check here for details.

  • NOTE. Some content will be hidden from you. If you want to view all content, you must register for the forum if you are not a member, or if a member, you must be logged in.

My auxiliary light obsession 2010 RT

Just talked with Jim Strang, GM at Iron Horse Motorcycles, Tucson.

He has ordered police brackets. The next step will be dropping off my R1200RT for him and his team to work on to see how it can be done. They service RT-Ps routinely for area police departments. Next week may be trial time. I am the willing to provide my RT for experimental purposes. If it works, the results and pix will be posted here first.

And if it works, Iron Horse could do it for any R1200RT owner.

I will photograph the entire process of installation. I just happen to have a pair of NOS PIAA lights (see photo).

I was hoping they might have a totaled RT-P to pick parts from, but that was not to be. Apparently all the LE departments in the area have Iron Horse fix their RT-Ps back up.

Hi Jeff,

I'm almost positive those brackets will work. The only thing is they'll most likely have to cut out some plastic where the mirror and other bits fit together. That's the way the RT-P's look here in Charlotte. Someone else posted some pics from an install he did himself and he took out some plastic with a dremel tool...

looked like factory...still it's painful to think someone might start drilling holes in our bikes!
 
Please let us know what the dealer says! For those that want under mirror lights, the radar antenna mount looks like it could be adapted for the same job (the white circular thing under the mirror on the right side is the actual radar antenna).

Your correct, in fact, it's a Golden Eagle. Good RADAR but the Stalker is better. The small round lens under the right emergency light is the camera system :D
 
phiotos

Hi Jeff,

I'm almost positive those brackets will work. The only thing is they'll most likely have to cut out some plastic where the mirror and other bits fit together. That's the way the RT-P's look here in Charlotte. Someone else posted some pics from an install he did himself and he took out some plastic with a dremel tool...
Could you send me privately or post the photos?

Thanks!
 
Don't get too hyper about LED long range lights. The reality is that if you want really long reach you need HID (not well suited for hi beam tie in for traffic dip and slow to restart after dimming) or a halogen with a decent reflector (eg the FF50).

LED output, of even the newest highest power single LEDs is only about 900 lumens (vs over 3000 for HID and 2100 for the Osram 65W H-7, for example). And ganging 3 of them to match the output of other types WILL NOT match the reach of the others due to limits of LED lens design.
The reach of the best single LED ones is capable of adding some fill in close and out to the reach of a good HID LOW beam but not more. More reach than that needs other stuff.

My setup is HID low beams, a pair of the 10W LED types (VisionX very similar to the Twisted Throttle D2) under the oil cooler (add some fill but serve primarily as superb conspicuity lights) and FF50s with the Osram 65W H-7 wired to my hi beam switch (plus a 3rd 65W Osram in the hi beam slot). Simple setup and more than ample for anything. About 14,300 lumens when everything is on.
If I wanted more reach it would take HIDs in place of the FF50s but the halogens give better color and depth perception due to their filament temp (what it takes to differentiate Bambi from the roadside trees unless you catch an eye reflection) - its not all about absolute output. Besides, there aren't any first class smaller (4") HIDs that are suitable for the pendant mounting in BMR mounts that I use. Larger HIDs create issues with finding an adequate bracket on an RT though not for a GS.
 
Your correct, in fact, it's a Golden Eagle. Good RADAR but the Stalker is better. The small round lens under the right emergency light is the camera system :D

No experience with the Stalker RADAR, only Decatur, which is another decent unit. Any idea on the specifics of the camera system? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post publicly.
 
Don't get too hyper about LED long range lights. The reality is that if you want really long reach you need HID (not well suited for hi beam tie in for traffic dip and slow to restart after dimming) or a halogen with a decent reflector (eg the FF50).

LED output, of even the newest highest power single LEDs is only about 900 lumens (vs over 3000 for HID and 2100 for the Osram 65W H-7, for example). And ganging 3 of them to match the output of other types WILL NOT match the reach of the others due to limits of LED lens design.
The reach of the best single LED ones is capable of adding some fill in close and out to the reach of a good HID LOW beam but not more. More reach than that needs other stuff.

My setup is HID low beams, a pair of the 10W LED types (VisionX very similar to the Twisted Throttle D2) under the oil cooler (add some fill but serve primarily as superb conspicuity lights) and FF50s with the Osram 65W H-7 wired to my hi beam switch (plus a 3rd 65W Osram in the hi beam slot). Simple setup and more than ample for anything. About 14,300 lumens when everything is on.
If I wanted more reach it would take HIDs in place of the FF50s but the halogens give better color and depth perception due to their filament temp (what it takes to differentiate Bambi from the roadside trees unless you catch an eye reflection) - its not all about absolute output. Besides, there aren't any first class smaller (4") HIDs that are suitable for the pendant mounting in BMR mounts that I use. Larger HIDs create issues with finding an adequate bracket on an RT though not for a GS.


Very good points. Which HID low beam system are you running? I'm about to pull the trigger on the 1offmotorsports HID kit for the low beams. Also, which type of beam pattern do you have with the Vision X LEDs, spot, flood or a combo of both? My experience with LEDs is mostly limited to flashlights, although the lens technology would probably translate to higher powered lights like the Denalis and Vision X products.
 
Very good points. Which HID low beam system are you running? I'm about to pull the trigger on the 1offmotorsports HID kit for the low beams. Also, which type of beam pattern do you have with the Vision X LEDs, spot, flood or a combo of both? My experience with LEDs is mostly limited to flashlights, although the lens technology would probably translate to higher powered lights like the Denalis and Vision X products.

Yes, Racer7 makes good points and I've conversed with him before about lighting. I recently purchased a set of LED driving lights at www.advmonster.com They're the model 30's which claim to produce 1500 lumens. A lot of folks over at advrider.com have used these lights with positive comments and results. These lights have 3 seperate LEDs and a spot beam pattern. They are not to be confused with HID kits but they do throw a decent amount of light down the road.

I'm thinking of mounting these down low on my forks with maybe Lumalink mounts and using the HiViz yellow tinted lens covers (Xpel) I purchased with them or underneath the nose/ oil cooler area with ezymount brackets.

I do like the idea of the Hella FF50's under the mirrors with Osram 65w bulbs in them. They come with 55w bulbs which aren't too shabby. I haven't ruled a 1offmotorsports HID kit out just yet but some riders have had some issues with them. Maybe I'll swap out all three 55w headlight bulbs with 3 Osrams ...:brow

It is true that most LED kits on the market today have some limitations but a select few brands have made great progress in producing some pretty bright lights. All the brands you mentioned are good as well as my advmonsters and Rigid Industries. The latter being made in the USA !
 
BTW, there's another light manufacturer out there on the market which looks promising. I stmbled uopn them while searching light mounts at the Lumalink site.

www.lazerstar.net

They claim to be made in the USA and offer HID, Halogen, and LED kits. Does anyone have any experience with this company?
 
the 1offmotorsports kit is what I use and it works well. I prefer the 4300K verson, not the the 6000K.
Do be careful with your light sockets if swapping. The plastic socket connector on the bike is a junk part that gets very brittle with het and you will crack it up if not gentle. Theere are ceramic aftermarket replacements available (about $7 each IIRC) should you need one.
Install will take you a couple hours if you're not used to working with the lights, 45 min or so if you are.

If you have enough experience with LED flashlights you're already familiar with the lens design of the LED bike lights- same thing. The Vision X I use are 20 degree beam. 10 would give a little bit more reach at the expense of fill. Wider than 20 would generally be as a fog light equivalent (for distance only, the beam would lack the sharp upper cutoff of a true fog) or perhaps off road to see more width at slower speeds. I've built hi power custom flashlights of various types so have messed with LEDs for a long time- they're still not good substitutes for halogens or HID in many applications- their light output quality and quantity is OK only for some uses but their primary attraction for many bikes is low power consumption- which is N/A for an RT that makes more juice than some cars. The long possible bulb life doesn't hurt but the when they die it means a new one rather than a bulb replacement. Many failures will not be the LED itself but the voltage and current control circuitry they require that is built into the lamp housing. The hours of life quoted for the LED is a deliberately misleading bit of info supplied by makers because it very probably will not be what dies eventually unless the overall design is so poor that it runs at elevated temps- nothing kills an LED faster than a bit too much heat..
 
the 1offmotorsports kit is what I use and it works well. I prefer the 4300K verson, not the the 6000K.
Do be careful with your light sockets if swapping. The plastic socket connector on the bike is a junk part that gets very brittle with het and you will crack it up if not gentle. Theere are ceramic aftermarket replacements available (about $7 each IIRC) should you need one.
Install will take you a couple hours if you're not used to working with the lights, 45 min or so if you are.

If you have enough experience with LED flashlights you're already familiar with the lens design of the LED bike lights- same thing. The Vision X I use are 20 degree beam. 10 would give a little bit more reach at the expense of fill. Wider than 20 would generally be as a fog light equivalent (for distance only, the beam would lack the sharp upper cutoff of a true fog) or perhaps off road to see more width at slower speeds. I've built hi power custom flashlights of various types so have messed with LEDs for a long time- they're still not good substitutes for halogens or HID in many applications- their light output quality and quantity is OK only for some uses but their primary attraction for many bikes is low power consumption- which is N/A for an RT that makes more juice than some cars. The long possible bulb life doesn't hurt but the when they die it means a new one rather than a bulb replacement. Many failures will not be the LED itself but the voltage and current control circuitry they require that is built into the lamp housing. The hours of life quoted for the LED is a deliberately misleading bit of info supplied by makers because it very probably will not be what dies eventually unless the overall design is so poor that it runs at elevated temps- nothing kills an LED faster than a bit too much heat. That's why all the decent multiple LED lights are so heavy- the need adequate sized metal heat sinks to take heat away from the LED- heat reduces output as well as shortening life. If you were to use a decent light meter with the typical maglite LED setup you could easily measure light drop after the LED heats up. A common featuree of all good high end and custom lights is the better heat sinking, typically with copper or aluminum heat conductive paths.
 
Racer, where have you found the ceramic replacements?
I cracked mine and have it siliconed for now...was hoping to find a replacement but no luck so far.

Also, I have a set of Hella HID's that I mounted under the mirrors on my RT ( didn't want to spend the money on the RTP mounts so made my own.
The ballasts on the Hellas are HUGE ( 4"x4"x1.5" approx) and there are two of them BUT they come on almost instantly relayed into the high beam circuit. ( I draw power directly from the Centech under the seat for powering the ballasts)
These units light up a football field like daylight giving good width to spot bambi and also project way down the road. They are only good for high beam else you would blind an oncoming driver.
 
Just talked with Jim Strang, GM at Iron Horse Motorcycles, Tucson.

He has ordered police brackets. The next step will be dropping off my R1200RT for him and his team to work on to see how it can be done. They service RT-Ps routinely for area police departments. Next week may be trial time. I am the willing to provide my RT for experimental purposes. If it works, the results and pix will be posted here first.

And if it works, Iron Horse could do it for any R1200RT owner.

I will photograph the entire process of installation. I just happen to have a pair of NOS PIAA lights (see photo).

I was hoping they might have a totaled RT-P to pick parts from, but that was not to be. Apparently all the LE departments in the area have Iron Horse fix their RT-Ps back up.

No pics on the thread yet. Does that mean the rtp brackets did NOT work?
 
You don't need the police brackets from BMW. A readily available alternate can be sourced from BMR. its what I use and the install is pretty easy.

Hellas and other oem HIDs are top rate stuff from a quality standpoint but the ballasts are std automotive size which makes them a bit large for a bike. But the small Hellas, even the rather pricey HIDs don't have the sheer output and reach of HIDs with large reflector. In general, a 4" reflector is a good size for a bike- 6" lamps are getting a bit big for most users and many 6" designs are a bit too heavy for brackets normally used for lighter halogen lights...

For a very high quality long range HID driving light of a good size and proper mounting type (can be pendant mounted) for a bike see the Baja Design Fuegos. Cheap they're not but they do have an internal ballast, cast metal housing, and use std automotive HID bulbs. User review of them are good- they come out of desert racing which is probably the most rugged test of any auxiliary light setup. Way into the overkill zone for what most would do with an RT..If I needed that type of reach they are what would replace the FF50s on my RT- but they'd need an extra switch because HIDs aren't meant for frequent dimming like one needs to do with a hi beam in the east. My FF50s switch with the hi beam circuit but linking an HID that way is a bad idea and would shorten life appreciably..
 
There is no single light or pair that does everything. Wider spread and longer distance are inherently conflicting goals so that means you will either need to pick your priority or end up installing a pairs of add ons, as I've done.

I'd suggest that the easiest way to go down the path that will get you what you want is to first decide if its more fill / width for low beam operation or reach on high beam that you want. For most users, lows get far more use so supplementing them gets priority. If you want everything, then you need multiple pairs but driving and spot lights are used for limited periods compared to lows.

Adding to lows could be anything from a flat top. 40 degree or more fog light that can only do very close and road shoulder illumination or it could be 20 or 30 degree stuff that will fill in the low and add some width. I do suggest staying around 20 degrees or less if you want to leave it on at night for a triangle effect- wider beams cannot be aimed low enough to be out of the eyes of oncoming traffic (Some wide beam LEDs have dimmers as a way around this limitation but note the LEDs inherently have a lot of glare so will ned to be dimmed a lot to eliminate it). Excess beam width is common on many LED types, PIAA 1100s, and many others commonly seen. There are many good choices for adding to lows- what's best for you depends a lot on where you want to mount them. My SP120s (20 degree LED type) fit nicely under the oil cooler of my RT, for example. But you might prefer fogs on crash bars or halogens on the forks, etc etc..

For distance and operation with hi beam, a pair of good driving lights with beams around 10 degrees are a good choice. For most a driving light pattern which is slightly wider will be a better choice than a narrower pencil beam. For switching using the stock hi beam switch, a halogen type is the right choice. Its what I do- mine are FF50s with 65W Osrams. But if you want ultimate reach and are willing to deal with a separate switch, a pair of good HIDs like the Baja Design Fuegos can give a bit more reach. But this latter setup is a nuisance if you have to dim a bunch for oncoming traffic- its best rserved for vacant areas out in the sticks. Especially for distance use, quality of the reflector design is critical. Generally cheap Asian copies have inferior reflectors that are optically poor and often corrosion prone if operated in wet climates. Its a goo idea to stick with folks who've supplied racers for years- such use sorts out the cheap crap prone to breakage pretty easily. Your motorcycle is a far more rugged test of a light than your cage. Do be sure to get 12V lights- you'll see that there are higher voltage lights available for vehicles with 24V power so don't buy those accidentally.

You generally get what you pay for when you buy lights. Cheap stuff compromises something- usually a reflector design or housing or electrical durability or both. In general lamps using the very common H-3 bulb are very likely to be inferior designs no matter who makes them. Reason is that the H-3 bulb itself was invented to be a more vibration resistant version of the H-1 and H-2. It cross wise filament is harder to focus well than an axial filament like on the H-1 because it needs a complex, multi curve reflector to do so while the H-1 needs only a decent parabola easily made. Yet most H-3 designs use cheap, spherical or pie pan reflectors which aren't even close to correct, sometimes with a lens to attempt to correct the beam (as on a PIAA 1100, for example). But each wrong surface or presence of a lens also causes an output loss. Pretty much every 55W H-3 type in existence puts out less light less well aimed than a 55W using any other type of halogen bulb.

Its also a good idea to recognize the limitation of indoor bulb types adapted to run as outdoor driving lights. The reflectors for these are often wrong for automotive use and the lamps themselves will often lack durability when mounted on a vibrating motorcycle in the rain- they were designed for stable, dry indoor use. which also means close range compared to automotive. Examples of adapted indoor stuff include for example
1) Motolights. Here a very well made housing holds a common indoor bulb. Output of all versions, even the LED, is low compared to better equivalents meant for automotive use but the rugged housing can make these a good conspicuity choice. Just don't expect much reach- you won't get it.
2) TrailTech 30W or PIAA Cross Country HID - this uses a custom but tiny HID capsule inserted into a std indoor bulb reflector. Here both bulb integrity and output are badly compromised compared to a std automotive HID of similar power eg a D1 or D2 type. The bulbs will get water inside if run in the rain with covers off and output is poor for the type due to the capsule design, ballast design, and unsuitable reflector design. They are a small HID but you give up a lot to get the size down to this- and it will get even worse with smaller HID types that now exist. Hi power LEDs make the best choices for truly compact yet decently powerful lights at this point in technology.

If your headlight will do an HID conversion while maintaining good focus and not creating a lot of scatter glare, than an HID conversion should probably be considered before adding extra lights though one should recognize these are technically all illegal if not oem. The RT works well for this as do some but not all others. Stick with 4100-4300K bulb types if you do this- they have the highest output and look more oem so are less likely to call unwanted attention to your change. If you want an upgrade but don't want to go HID, its easy if you have H-7 bulbs- just use a 65W Osram in the bousing instead of the 55W stock and get a 40% increase with no downside to it. Not so easy with other bulb types where using upwatt bulbs will either not give much of an increase or need heavy duty wiring to carry higher power. And the upwatt Asian cheap bulbs are typically crap, not worth buying. some can explode in your housing, coating it with the yellow dust residue of the bulb. Always beware Asian sources- inferior knockoffs meant to deceive are commonplace and you will regret getting stuck with a set..
 
Here's what worked great on my 1150 RT-P. The previous owner used PIAAs mounted on the police strobe light mounts. Throws a lot of light and really gets you noticed by oncoming and potentially, left-turning vehicles. I had them aimed somewhat downward to not blind oncoming drivers. No one ever cut me off or unexpectedly turned left in front of me.

However, I'm now the owner of a R1200 RT and am looking for a solution for this bike too.

Just be advised that some states do not allow lights above the handlebar, but I don't know of a LEO that will hassle you as long as you're not blinding anyone, and since you're just rtying to stay alive !
 

Attachments

  • P8270020.jpg
    P8270020.jpg
    110.9 KB · Views: 352
Back
Top