• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

Robb leaves BMW

They didn't start listening until just a few years ago. We all have to remember that they are in the business - and only the business - of selling *new* motorcycles, and some battles just aren't worth fighting.

I really like the unusual turn signals on my R11Rs.........
 
I really like the unusual turn signals on my R11Rs.........

Yes, I love the "dual switch" configuration on my bikes as well.

However, the interesting thing to me about this switch discussion is that BMW didn't always use the dual design. The /5's used a single switch which was round with a small lever that you flipped up or down. The later airheads had a slider switch basically like other brands. The dual switch configuration was introduced with the (then) new K bikes line in 1984. Eventually, BMW applied that to all models. For many riders, that's all they've ever known, but historically, the dual switches were just a phase for BMW.
 
They didn't start listening until just a few years ago. We all have to remember that they are in the business - and only the business - of selling *new* motorcycles, and some battles just aren't worth fighting.

Greg,

I agree they listen to the market, especially in the last half-dozen years. My point earlier was that they give little weight to the opinions of the press.
 
Greg,

I agree they listen to the market, especially in the last half-dozen years. My point earlier was that they give little weight to the opinions of the press.

Agreed. Apparently, they spent a fair amount of money to find out who their potential customers were listing to, and changed for that reason.
 
Agreed. Apparently, they spent a fair amount of money to find out who their potential customers were listing to, and changed for that reason.

I can understand research to see what potential customers think. But research to see who potential customers listen to? Who'd that be? Is mckayprod correct?
 
I can understand research to see what potential customers think. But research to see who potential customers listen to? Who'd that be? Is mckayprod correct?

I'm not a marketing geek, nor do I want to play one on the Internet, but I do have the need to talk with them a fair amount. What I've learned is that one thing you look for if you are selling something is your customer's "centers of influence". Who or what do they turn to for credible information to influence their decisions. And, then you want to do what you can to influence the influencers.

Given that many bike dealers don't provide demo rides, then bike magazines are about the only place you can read "impartial" comparative reviews of different bikes. Speaking for myself, I can pick apart a lot of those reviews because they a) got some facts wrong, b) were biased (IMO), c) didn't ride the bikes long enough or under the conditions I would, d) don't have the right (read: *my*) criteria, and so on. But, these reviews are pretty much the only game in town, especially if you're considering a brand or type of bike you've never had before.
 
What evidence supports this? BMW stopped producing the ST because it didn't sell well, not because Kevin Ash didn't like it. And Ash's review wasn't responsible for the poor sales - the bike's unusual looks were. Mechanically it was a perfectly-BMWisj piece of machinery; esthetically, it didn't make people swoon when the garage door was raised.

If BMW corporate paid attention to the motorcycle press, BMW's unusual turn-signal controls would have been abandoned decades ago.

I test rode an ST and loved it, just knew I would have to get off and look at it on occasion so it was a no for me. On the other hand I like the turn signal layout as is on my 12 GS.
 
FWIW I think the Suzuki Bandit had more to do with the demise of the ST than anything the press had to say. The Suzuki was a big hit in Europe with the sport touring crowd at the same time that ST came out. While I think the ST was a better bike dollar for dollar, pound sterling for pound sterling, euro for euro or what ever the Bandit was a heck of a value and cut far to deep into the primary European customer base that BMW needed to make the ST a viable bike in the lineup.
 
Clones

I am very new to BMW bikes but I suspect there is a great deal of stress going on at HQ. Look at the number of clones to the 1200 GS now and in the future. Triumph is going head to head with BMW on most models. The new Explorer and in a few years the RT will be challenged. Cheaper bikes from a well known marque. To top that off, the advent of liquid cooled boxers can only add to the equation. Times can not be fun with the number of challenges ahead. I like the BMW, that is why I just bought a new RT but in 3 years or less, the competition will fierce. That kind of pressure is bound to have some effect on how a business operates and hence interesting dynamics with personnel possibly leading to change.
 
I am very new to BMW bikes but I suspect there is a great deal of stress going on at HQ. Look at the number of clones to the 1200 GS now and in the future. Triumph is going head to head with BMW on most models. The new Explorer and in a few years the RT will be challenged. Cheaper bikes from a well known marque. To top that off, the advent of liquid cooled boxers can only add to the equation. Times can not be fun with the number of challenges ahead. I like the BMW, that is why I just bought a new RT but in 3 years or less, the competition will fierce. That kind of pressure is bound to have some effect on how a business operates and hence interesting dynamics with personnel possibly leading to change.

A most interesting perspective not previously presented. :scratch
 
I agree there is a great deal of stress going on at the Mothership; however, I see the clone wars as symptomatic to stress being felt by entire industry. Where are the riders and what will they want are the questions stress motorcycle executives. To remain viable, let alone grow, companies must expand their offerings to try and capture what ever part they may of a aging and declining number of two wheeled buyers. The Kneeslider had a piece, 'Dangerous Thoughts About the Future of Motorcycles' that does a very good job of making the point I would babble on about.

The head of BMW Motorrad Hendrik von Kuenheim is also the current head of ACEM. This is the European motorcycle manufactures association. He has written extensively in their newsletter about the difficulties the industry faces in keeping motorcycles a viable part of the transportation mix the public chooses.

With all the choices it is a great time to be a rider and a difficult time to be a manufacturer.
 
In a lot of ways BMW motorcycles is right-sized. A while back I noticed that for every BMW sold, Harley was selling 20. So if BMW captured just one out of 20 of the Harley sales Harley would still have 95% of their sales and BMW sales would double. If BMW captured just one out of 40 of the sales, Harley sales would be at 97.5% and BMW would have a 50% increase in sales.

BMW manufacturing, distribution, and sales are small for the industry. But profitable. And even over the past two years with economies all over the world in the tank BMW sales increased while larger brands lost sizable portions of their volume.

I suspect that BMW will continue to do OK - but in so doing they will aggravate some of us. They plan and intend to keep the dealer network in the US at around 150 dealerships. They will be looking at locations only after extensive demographic studies. Which means those of us in far away boondocky kinds of places are not going to have a dealership just around the corner. They will build what they firmly believe they can sell. We won't find warehouses full of 2008 non-sellers at silly low prices. At some dealerships we will wait for a bike. Inventories won't be flush hoping we will wander by.

They will build and sell more bikes when they believe that is profitable. They will cut inventory and manufacturing (and the associated costs) when they believe that will be more profitable. So far, the strategy seems to be a few more units sold each year. And also so far, they are making the strategy work.
 
Sounds like typical conservative and calculated German philosophy. Profitable by long term planned goals.

Harley dealerships can be found EVERYWHERE and nearly ANYWHERE, which is probably a bigger reason for their market domination than the bikes themselves. You can always find a HD outlet close by and easily, sometimes ridicuously close to other dealers, even here in fairly remote Wisconsin. Also, with SO many dealers in close range of each other, the HD owners can always find their "breathern". So again, the clan of HD is almost more than the product of the bikes.

But conversely, look in any classifieds add section of any newspaper for used motorcycles and its awash in used HDs. We BMW riders tend to hang on to our rides, and actually ride them! Novel thought that.
 
I watch Ebay for parts as a regular and also scan the BMW bikes that come up each day-it runs from teens to ~30 per day & many are relistings by dealers like Max . I don't get the hang on to them thing , as there are scads out there for sale in the various mkt's & many have low miles. I do agree that the classifieds seem to have a HD list everywhere you go but thats much like a chevy list to me as such a common brand is to be expected. The classifieds these days are an afterthought anyway. i used to really "get off" with a trip to a box book store & perusing the big city classifieds for exotics.
Maybe BMW, as a "toney" brand is selling to the "one per centers" as a somewhat inflation proof strategy & as Paul G. says the sales go up a bit @ a time which is our middle class shrinking? As much as impulse has always seemed to matter in the glitter world, it seems a miracle to me that the stuff sells like it does, what with so few dealer showrooms. Cycle mags seem to "test" most models(that buy ads) and I'm wondering how brand loyalty compares across the bike world landscape? I know from other boards that many own several brands & it's quite common to see people that left BMW to an Asian,Tiger or Ducati ride.
There's another Americano that designed at BMW-is he still there?
 
Back
Top