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95 1100r spongy brake lever

H

hmdalton

Guest
Hi everybody,
I'm new to the forum as far as posting or starting threads, but I've been doing a lot of reading about two things in particular, but have found nothing that really gets at my problem. So, here goes...

I have been trying for many days now to get all the air out of my front brakes. Have had some success with the "pounding the calipers with a rubber mallet and then 'flicking the lever to release bubbles" technique ( that used to work track-side when had brake fade from too much hard cornering on flat tracks. I've done the zip tie the lever over night thing as well, but I still can't get the lever to feel solid like it ought to be.

Does anyone have any counsel either encouraging or cautionary about reverse-bleeding the system? I've heard that can be anathema to servo-ABS modulators, but is it safe with ABS1? I've done that on my Beemer cars with excellent effect, but never with any having ABS.

Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can share.

Mark:scratch
 
On my 94 RS I installed a replacement ABS modulator back in 06, along with SpeedBleeders at all the calipers with great success, easy to bleed and get a good lever feel.

Then in 2010 I installed Spiegler brake lines on the front and again the SpeedBleeders made it easy and quick to bleed the system with simply pumping the lever and filling the master resevoir while watching the old fluid get pumped out.

A 95 R has ABS servos, but not like the 2002 system which is much more complicated. Your R has the same ABS as on my 94 RS. So no problem using standard bleeding techniques on the older systems, although I have never used the reverse-bleeding technique.
 
JimMoore said:
I'd get a MityVac and try again. Have you pulled the tank and bled at the ABS module?
Click to expand...

Jim,
Thanks for a quick response. I did do the mightyvac. I used it to change out the brake fluid front and back. I've got good pedal on the rear, but not so the fronts. I've always tried to start bleeding (brakes, that is) from the most remote part. That would be a toss-up for the ABS module or the left front it seems. But have done it several times each way, having pulled the tank more than once now. At least on a roadster, there's almost zero tupperware.

Mark
 
ANDYVH said:
On my 94 RS I installed a replacement ABS modulator back in 06, along with SpeedBleeders at all the calipers with great success, easy to bleed and get a good lever feel.

Then in 2010 I installed Spiegler brake lines on the front and again the SpeedBleeders made it easy and quick to bleed the system with simply pumping the lever and filling the master resevoir while watching the old fluid get pumped out.

A 95 R has ABS servos, but not like the 2002 system which is much more complicated. Your R has the same ABS as on my 94 RS. So no problem using standard bleeding techniques on the older systems, although I have never used the reverse-bleeding technique.
Click to expand...

Andy,
It's great to have someone with so much more knowledge respond so quickly. Thanks.

I did get some speed bleeders for the front calipers from my local moto shop. But he wasn't able to find them for the rear or ABS. By mityvac-ing the rear, I got a very good pedal.

It sounds really spendy to replace the modulator. Do you know what was wrong with the old one? Hoping not to have to go that deep ($$$). BTW, on start-up, ABS indicates ok and seems to set itself just fine now that I have some lever on the front.

Still hoping it's still something (relatively) simple, like perseverance.

Thanks again, Mark
 
some other tricks you can try- after initial bleeding, turn bars all the way left to ensure m/c is highest point of system, leave uncapped overnite. then, redo the the "strap the lever to the grip" procedure; that worked wonders on mine for removing the sponges.
 
Although it won't work on my servo-equipped R1100S, I've also had excellent results on other bikes with the reverse bleeding technique. I'd say give it a whirl. It can't hurt.
 
I had to replace the ABS modulator when my former dealer claimed I had "burned in a permanent fault" by doing too many low-votage/cold weather starts. Personally I think it failed when I had a crash that put the bike on its side with the engine still running the rear wheel spinning. The ABS was going crazy trying to "stop" the rear wheel. I have heard the ABSI has a tip-over protection cicuit internal to the unit that when tripped causes it to fault dead.

Not sure about that, as I still have the original modulator and I'd like to learn more about it. As long as your ABS works fine now, no reason to worry about it. Flush the brake fluid is a very GOOD idea, even better is to regularly get out and practice high-effort braking stops to the point you purposely engage the ABS. You'll develop better braking skills, and the ABS system will get the "exercise" it really does need once in a while.
 
hmdalton said:
Jim,
Thanks for a quick response. I did do the mightyvac. I used it to change out the brake fluid front and back. I've got good pedal on the rear, but not so the fronts. I've always tried to start bleeding (brakes, that is) from the most remote part. That would be a toss-up for the ABS module or the left front it seems. But have done it several times each way, having pulled the tank more than once now. At least on a roadster, there's almost zero tupperware.

Mark
Click to expand...

Here's another little trick. Unbolt a caliper. Rock it against the disc until the pads are pressed all the way in. Shim it with something and do the same to the other side. You will get a lot of fluid out the top. Maybe an air bibble will pop out too. Bleed again with the calipers off and pads shimmed open. Why? hell, I don't know. For me it always seems like the lever is never going to firm up, then I try one more little thing and BAM, I'm good-to-go. I think the bottom line is that you have to keep messing with it.
 
JimMoore said:
Here's another little trick. Unbolt a caliper. Rock it against the disc until the pads are pressed all the way in. Shim it with something and do the same to the other side. You will get a lot of fluid out the top. Maybe an air bibble will pop out too. Bleed again with the calipers off and pads shimmed open. Why? hell, I don't know. For me it always seems like the lever is never going to firm up, then I try one more little thing and BAM, I'm good-to-go. I think the bottom line is that you have to keep messing with it.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jim, I hadn't thought about that that makes sense to sort of semi-reverse flush by pushing the calipers all the way in-- gonna try it as soon as get a chance. I've certainly found it true that bleeding brakes is never a slam dunk. Sometimes :banghead can pay off, eh?

I ordered some speed bleeders for my ABS unit -- maybe that will help reduce the :banghead

Thanks for your help,
Mark
 
ANDYVH said:
I had to replace the ABS modulator when my former dealer claimed I had "burned in a permanent fault" by doing too many low-votage/cold weather starts. Personally I think it failed when I had a crash that put the bike on its side with the engine still running the rear wheel spinning. The ABS was going crazy trying to "stop" the rear wheel. I have heard the ABSI has a tip-over protection cicuit internal to the unit that when tripped causes it to fault dead.

Not sure about that, as I still have the original modulator and I'd like to learn more about it. As long as your ABS works fine now, no reason to worry about it. Flush the brake fluid is a very GOOD idea, even better is to regularly get out and practice high-effort braking stops to the point you purposely engage the ABS. You'll develop better braking skills, and the ABS system will get the "exercise" it really does need once in a while.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the further info -- seems like it probably doesn't apply. The first thing I did after acquiring the bike was to change out the fluid -- it looked like coffee. And I'm going to follow your counsel about practicing max braking. Big part of defensive riding, for sure. It's not hard to engage the ABS often -- I live on a gravel road.

FWIW, I would imagine the dead fault could be rectified by resetting code -- that should be an electronic issue rather than a physical/mechanical one.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

BTW, you cheeseheads are lookin' pretty good right now.

Mark
 
bikerfish1100 said:
some other tricks you can try- after initial bleeding, turn bars all the way left to ensure m/c is highest point of system, leave uncapped overnite. then, redo the the "strap the lever to the grip" procedure; that worked wonders on mine for removing the sponges.
Click to expand...

I have always put the bars hard left to make the m/c the high point. Never tried the strapped lever with the reservoir UNcapped. More likely to let the bubbles out, I guess? Would you just put a clean rag over it to keep ufo's out (unwanted-f-o's) or leave the top plate/diaphragm on but not screwed down?

Thanks for the good advice,
Mark
 
no, wouldn't strap the lever with cap off, just let it sit open for awhile. maybe saran wrap, just covering but not tight, if you're worried about intruders.
strap lever overnight.

i think you still have air in there that needs to come out.
 
That's where the problem started. My dealer at the time tried to reset the original ABS modulator and they claimed the faults could not be cleared.
 
You have to bleed the modulator first

Don't you have to bleed the brakes at the modulator first before you go to the individual calipers??? I seem to remember this from somewhere. When I did a rehab on a '94 RS that was the only way I managed to get a nice solid brake pedal and lever. The early modulators are very easy to take apart and clean all the screens and passages if they get clogged up.
 
Are you still dealing with your original rubber hoses? If so, I would carefully check all of the hose sections for a swelling hose - or replace with stainless hoses.
 
m_stock10506 said:
Are you still dealing with your original rubber hoses? If so, I would carefully check all of the hose sections for a swelling hose - or replace with stainless hoses.
Click to expand...

I agree totally. If they are the orignal lines, replace them. Not much fun when they fail in traffic like they did on my 95 GS.

I had a soft lever on the first pull which stiffened on the second pull after replacing the lines and bleeding. I got a firm lever
by strapping the lever down overnight and then rebleeding just a bit.

I bled ABS first then left caliper then right. I also smeared grease around the fittings on the ABS unit to keep air from moving
around the threads on the bleed nipples. The calipers both had speedbleeders with their factory compound around the threads.

Oh, and I bled using the master cylinder. It was a bit slow refilling the entire system but worked ok. Getting a firm lever was a
little frustrating but worth the effort.
 
m_stock10506 said:
Are you still dealing with your original rubber hoses? If so, I would carefully check all of the hose sections for a swelling hose - or replace with stainless hoses.
Click to expand...

Michael, bikerfish, wvrocks,
Thanks for all the counsel. I'm hearing a strong consensus that I should change out my brake lines. I do know braided s/s is the the only way to go for racing as it resists fading the the brakes heat up. I'm wondering if anyone knows of some more economical alternatives to Spiegler. They seem pretty pricey.

Thanks everybody for all the help. Greatly appreciated.

Mark
 
hmdalton said:
I'm wondering if anyone knows of some more economical alternatives to Spiegler. They seem pretty pricey.

Mark
Click to expand...

Price some OEM replacement lines. It'll make you feel better about the Spieglers.

Btw, Tom Cutter at the Rubber Chicken Racing Garage is a Spiegler Rep, and a long-time BMW guru.
 
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