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2004 R1150RT Wideband O2 Sensors

Part 4 of 4

R1200GSA Fully Adapted Demonstration Ride
On his way home from HelnBack, after about 20-30 hours of riding, Terry logged his AFRs for several hours. Below is about 1 1/2 minutes of one of the segments so you can see the degree to which the BMSK has adapted the AFRs of his two cylinders to be equal. They are nearly carbon copies of one another. I continue to be amazed by how well the BMSK manages the motorcycle.

While the chart pretty much speaks for itself, here are some notes:
--The tall peaks are Overrun Fuel Cutoff during deceleration. Note how well and how quickly the BMSK gets the engine back to its target AFR--13.65:1 in Terry's case using the LC-1s.

--The acceleration AFR dips which varied prior to adaptation in the post 2 of this series are very uniform. Even during acclereation, the AFRs track. The richest mixtures are about 11.8:1 (richer than a stock bike because of Adaptation to his 13.65 Closed Loop target).

--About the leanest the BMSK puts the mixture is about 15:1 during normal deceleration (in other words, not Overrun Cutoff). This would approach 16:1 on a stock bike as its target Closed Loop would be leaner. Also keep in mind that nowhere in the hours of logs Terry sent was there a leaner than target fueling during cruise or acceleration. If during Dyno runs, you see grossly lean AFRs recorded it is most likely due to the Dyno's Wideband AFR gauge in the tailpipe.

So that's it, probably too much detail but I hope that we all know more about how the BMW ECUs work. A big thank you from me to Terry for accumulating this data. Nice work!

RB


bmsko25.jpg
 
Last weekend a package arrived from a forum colleague who has decided to install the Innovate Motorsports MTX-L on his 2003 R1150RT. The MTX-L is an LC-1 and water-resistant gauge in a single package. It should perform just like the LC-1.

Inside the package was a Power Commander III USB with Wideband O2 sensor that was being replaced by the MTX-L. I've been eager to test the PC III for a while since on paper it seemed like a plug & play option for mixture richening. After running it for three days, it is an option, but I wasn't impressed.

Here are my notes:
1) The Closed loop lambda error of its Wideband was large. To get a closed loop of 13.8 you needed to program 14.4. Its programming was 14.2 when it arrived here which means it was actually at about 13.6. This is consistent with the carbon on the sensor when it arrived. I spoke to tech support at Dynojet about this. They said the unit self calibrated but clearly it didn't. To me, 0.3 afr would be the largest acceptable error, it was off by 0.8 afr.

2) The PC III BMW fuel table is a unique product. Unlike any other PC III it has Closed Loop and Open Loop fuel table cells. The Cells in the Closed Loop area are disabled. This leads to the complex problem that the Motronic through adaptation will add to open loop what it adds to closed loop. That is not documented. It means before deciding what values to add to the Open Loop cells you must wait for the Motronic to finish adapting. Of course there's no way to know when that happens.

It would be better if all cells in the fuel table were programmable. Then if you were moving afr 6% plus 4% for E10, you would enter +10 into the closed loops cells and adaptation would be minimal. The way it works you could have an invisible 10% added to Open Loop through adaptation and then be adding fuel on top of that! It is as confusing as it sounds.

The Closed Loop area defined by the PC and the Motronic are likely different. I communicated with PC tech support about this and they acknowledged it. As long as the PC area is bigger than the Motronic area it's not much of a problem but I couldn't confirm that.

3) The software is unique, has no upgrades, support or documentation. Here is what PC said, "You are correct, in that there is not an available firmware update for your type of Power Commander. It is a unique unit, and unlike all of the other standard Power Commander 3 usb units. It also is not compatible with any of the accessories like LCD, Quickshifter, etc."

4) It is truly plug and play and only took me 10 minutes to install since I have a second O2 bung and since my O2 connector was relocated so that it's not under the fuel tank. That said, you double the number of connectors for the TPS and each FI and need to take a lot of care dressing them so they don't interfere with the throttle linkage.

5) There is no AFR datalogging software as with the LC-1.

I was excited about the possibilities of the PC III for BMW with Wideband O2 but came away feeling that it is really two separate products that aren't well integrated or supported.
RB
 
On another site I made some comments about availability for R1150s with OEM connectors and other motorcycles. Here is what I wrote.

EKinOR said:
Just a follow up to my post on on Roger's test device. After having to uninstall the test unit :cry I did a 100 mile day ride, two up. The difference was really noticeable. Even with a really good TB sync using a Harmonizer across multiple RPMs, I had noticeable surging after the uninstall. Low RPM roll-on was significantly reduced as well. I think the uninstall made the differences more noticeable, as the Motronic gets reset, and unlike with the install, there is no adaptation going on, as it's back to base line.

I will be buying one! I heartily recommend every 1150 owner get one, along with an IAT shifting device such as the IICE Air or Booster Plug.

Thanks Eric, glad to hear. I've sent you production unit one just yesterday. No reason to live with a stock bike much longer. These BMWs really respond to just a bit more fuel.

Mr. Ch said:
That's where I'm leaning right now....I'm going to wait a couple of weeks and see what the final cost is - I sent an email to Nightrider.com since they have a waitlist email on the site.

Steve@nightrider won't list these on his site until the volumes build so what I've agreed to do so that this gets going: I've purchased four dozen sets of OEM connectors and will place a series of bulk orders. Then I'll find a way to distribute and let everyone know soon. There will probably be a page in the advrider.com vendors section. I will have an announcement any day soon.

After that we will also list a generic cable while we test and shore up supplies for R1200s, F800s and R1100s. The generic cable would allow someone to add it to their existing O2 sensor, avoiding the wait for OEM connector availability. It will be a cut and crimp operation.
 
Not having the time right now to read all the posts, the questions I have are: Will it work on an R 1100 RT, how much does it cost, what else do I need to buy, when can I get one?
 
Not having the time right now to read all the posts, the questions I have are: Will it work on an R 1100 RT, how much does it cost, what else do I need to buy, when can I get one?

It works on an R1100RT. Price is being finalized. If you add a BoosterPlug the benefit happens more quickly but it is not mandatory.

Mixture richening by shifting the switching point of oxygen sensor has worked successfully on R1100s, R1150s, R1200s and F800s. The results reported in this thread have been consistent. Here is a good example from a rider of an R1100RT: Narrowband O2 Shift on R1100RT.

The Narrowband shift device will soon be announced for the R1150 series, and then when OEM connectors are available (soon we hope) for R1100, R1200 and F800. There will likely be a generic cable at a lower cost that can be tapped onto a stock O2 sensor.

Or you could purchase an innovate Motorsports LC-1 and adapt it as described here: Wideband Installation Overview/.

RB
 
It works on an R1100RT. Price is being finalized. If you add a BoosterPlug the benefit happens more quickly but it is not mandatory.

Mixture richening by shifting the switching point of oxygen sensor has worked successfully on R1100s, R1150s, R1200s and F800s. The results reported in this thread have been consistent. Here is a good example from a rider of an R1100RT: Narrowband O2 Shift on R1100RT.

The Narrowband shift device will soon be announced for the R1150 series, and then when OEM connectors are available (soon we hope) for R1100, R1200 and F800. There will likely be a generic cable at a lower cost that can be tapped onto a stock O2 sensor.

Or you could purchase an innovate Motorsports LC-1 and adapt it as described here: Wideband Installation Overview/.

RB

Gotta tell ya that I'm not the brightest bulb on the porch when reading those posts with the wealth of info and data.

I'm more of a plug and play kind of guy who would love a solution which would be simple to install and work w/o a lot of fiddling on my part.

So when you have that ready to go, send me a PM with info and I'm in. :thumb
 
Gotta tell ya that I'm not the brightest bulb on the porch when reading those posts with the wealth of info and data.

I'm more of a plug and play kind of guy who would love a solution which would be simple to install and work w/o a lot of fiddling on my part.

So when you have that ready to go, send me a PM with info and I'm in. :thumb

I think your point of view reflects the view of the majority of BMW owners. When I realized that I contacted Steve Mullen at Nightrider.com and persuaded him to redesign his AF-XIED which is for Harleys, to a set of specs that would work for our bikes.

I've tested the device on several motorcycles and it works. The greatest challenge to plug n play is coming up with a supply of the male and female O2 connectors.

The other fly in the ointment is that BMW often locates the O2 connector under the fuel tank. Which means that even a simple device install requires tank removal. THANKS BMW.
 
Here's an update of where things stand with the Narrowband Shift device.

1) A dozen first production run units and cables for R1150 (Motronic MA 2.4) will be ready for shipment sometime during the coming week. Many of those have been spoken for by beta-riders, etc. More on this during the week.

2) We'll have a couple generic cables that I'll add BMS-K (R1200, F800) connectors to for further beta testing of these models. I don't expect any surprises. (See BMSK Proto Below)

3) Connector supply for OEM parts seems to be progressing in the past week.

4) Since the R1150 series is ready to ship, I've converted Proto 2 from 1150 to BMS-K and will beta test this on an F800GS. Because I have a reference LC-1 installation on an F800S I'm expecting this beta test to go well.

We've got several R1200/F800 O2 sensors and I've been installing them on my R1150, with a Proto modified to have an R1200/F800 connector on the O2 side and R1150 connector on the MA 2.4 side. It ran just as well as the R1100, R1150 single-spark and R1150 dual-spark. A couple user beta tests and then it should be good to go.

Here is a photo of the BMS-K beta unit that will ship out for beta riding for a couple weeks.

RB

r1200proto1.jpg
 
Here's an update of where things stand with the Narrowband Shift device.

1) A dozen first production run units and cables for R1150 (Motronic MA 2.4) will be ready for shipment sometime during the coming week. Many of those have been spoken for by beta-riders, etc. More on this during the week.

2) We'll have a couple generic cables that I'll add BMS-K (R1200, F800) connectors to for further beta testing of these models. I don't expect any surprises. (See BMSK Proto Below)

3) Connector supply for OEM parts seems to be progressing in the past week.

4) Since the R1150 series is ready to ship, I've converted Proto 2 from 1150 to BMS-K and will beta test this on an F800GS. Because I have a reference LC-1 installation on an F800S I'm expecting this beta test to go well.

We've got several R1200/F800 O2 sensors and I've been installing them on my R1150, with a Proto modified to have an R1200/F800 connector on the O2 side and R1150 connector on the MA 2.4 side. It ran just as well as the R1100, R1150 single-spark and R1150 dual-spark. A couple user beta tests and then it should be good to go.

Here is a photo of the BMS-K beta unit that will ship out for beta riding for a couple weeks.

RB

r1200proto1.jpg

The F800GS beta unit is an important step in the BMW-AF-XIED(r) product testing since the F800 uses a BMSK controller. The installation took place and was successfully test ridden earlier this week. This is a pretty good indication that the R1200 beta will go smoothly.

Here is a link to the early beta report: BMW-AF-XIED Beta on F800GS (photos included).
 
It's official now, Nightrider.com has gone into production on the BMW-AF-XIED with an R1150/Motronic MA 2.4 harness, and a you-do-it Universal Harness. Harnesses for R1100s, R1200s and F800s are in development and beta testing.

As those who have been following the thread know, this device richens the Closed Loop mixture by shifting the stock narrowband sensor's output signal using digital signal processing technology.

I'm sure there will be a formal announcement soon, and I expect to see a prominent BMW parts/accessories/add-ons retailer join the distribution channel.

Nightrider ran a small production lot last week and has just kicked off a larger run. Here's a photo of some units I received today and a diagram of how elegantly the BMW-AF-XIED fits into the Motronic system.

BMWAFXIEDproduction.jpg


motronicxied.jpg
 
Gotta tell ya that I'm not the brightest bulb on the porch when reading those posts with the wealth of info and data.

I'm more of a plug and play kind of guy who would love a solution which would be simple to install and work w/o a lot of fiddling on my part.

So when you have that ready to go, send me a PM with info and I'm in. :thumb

A good point. Plug and play makes it easier to sell to the masses.
 
It's official now, Nightrider.com has gone into production on the BMW-AF-XIED with an R1150/Motronic MA 2.4 harness, and a you-do-it Universal Harness. Harnesses for R1100s, R1200s and F800s are in development and beta testing.

As those who have been following the thread know, this device richens the Closed Loop mixture by shifting the stock narrowband sensor's output signal using digital signal processing technology.

I'm sure there will be a formal announcement soon, and I expect to see a prominent BMW parts/accessories/add-ons retailer join the distribution channel.

Nightrider ran a small production lot last week and has just kicked off a larger run. Here's a photo of some units I received today and a diagram of how elegantly the BMW-AF-XIED fits into the Motronic system.

BMWAFXIEDproduction.jpg


motronicxied.jpg

Roger, are you tied in with Nightrider some how? I'm always impressed with your command of the subject. I'm surprised about what appears to be a substantial amount of R&D effort for motorcycles no longer made. I hope it pays off for you financially.

By the way, how does your (this?) product differ from a Dynojet Power Commander? Or, how is it different on R1100's specifically?

Thank you for all of your input.
 
Roger, are you tied in with Nightrider some how? I'm always impressed with your command of the subject. I'm surprised about what appears to be a substantial amount of R&D effort for motorcycles no longer made. I hope it pays off for you financially.

By the way, how does your (this?) product differ from a Dynojet Power Commander? Or, how is it different on R1100's specifically?

Thank you for all of your input.

The power commander III USB with Wideband O2 sensor is a good product but more than twice the price. Compared to the BMW-AF-XIED which only requires you to plug in on cable, the PC III requires you to drop the exhaust and replace the o2 sensor, connect to the TPS, and connect to both injectors.

For a stock bike the BMW-AF-XIED does almost all of what the PC III does, which is to richen the mixture. Only if you want to program individual cells in the fuel matrix, would you want to consider PC III.

I took this work on to improve my motorcycle and out of general interest in the area. i have learned a lot as I've gone along. Although I don't have a formal relationship with nightrider, they will defray some of my development costs.
 
In addition to the news that Nightrider.com has completed its first production,

BeemerBoneyard.com, a well-known supplier on new and used BMW parts, has joined the BMW-AF-XIED marketing effort. I have heard they will have units ready for sale by July 22.

RB


It's official now, Nightrider.com has gone into production on the BMW-AF-XIED with an R1150/Motronic MA 2.4 harness, and a you-do-it Universal Harness. Harnesses for R1100s, R1200s and F800s are in development and beta testing.

As those who have been following the thread know, this device richens the Closed Loop mixture by shifting the stock narrowband sensor's output signal using digital signal processing technology.

I'm sure there will be a formal announcement soon, and I expect to see a prominent BMW parts/accessories/add-ons retailer join the distribution channel.

Nightrider ran a small production lot last week and has just kicked off a larger run. Here's a photo of some units I received today and a diagram of how elegantly the BMW-AF-XIED fits into the Motronic system.

BMWAFXIEDproduction.jpg
 
Beemer Boneyand will be setting up a Vendor thread on the ADVrider site, for support and Q&A, soon.

In the meantime, I thought I'd report on the box of devices and cables that I received from Nightrider.com yesterday.

Given the trusting soul that I am, I unpacked and connected all the BMW-AF-XIEDs that they shipped to me, and the R1150 harnesses too. I ran everyone on my bike after pulling the plastic. Then I connected my GS-911 and LC-1 and datalogged them.

Everyone was spot-on. Great job Steve at Nightrider.com!
 
Congratulations are in order Roger. Your work on this project has been outstanding. It is great to see it coming to market and in a professional manner. Riding the beta unit on my 1100RT has me convinced this item is going to do very well once the word gets around.

- Awesome Idea :thumb
- Awesome Development :thumb
- Awesome Delivery :thumb

Triple Awesome Trifecta! :bow
 
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