What is Surging???

Well, I stoppped by the dealership and they were very tuned-into the surging issue. Both the owner and salesman claimed they owned 2002 RT's that they installed the Tech box on and said they now run better than stock. Also said if mine continues, when I come in for the 6,000 mi check they will install the Tech box at discount rate?
Also went on to say that I shd. run 87 octane not premium to help aleeveate the surg???
Owner said he just returned from factory training and this issue is from the oil temp sensor and computer interface??? Not the O2 sensor!

ride4j said:

Well, I stoppped by the dealership and they were very tuned-into the surging issue.

Also went on to say that I shd. run 87 octane not premium to help aleeveate the surg???

Click to expand...

Now that is an interesting idea. Don't see it working but why not give it a try. Anyone try this? Results?

I tried all 3 grades and all brands of gasoline and made no difference.

Yet another opinion

I had very bad surging when I first rode my used 1998/R1100RT last summer.
I believe that was because I had fallen for the old line "sure it will run fine on regular".

NOT SO!!!

Now I only feed it the highest octane I can find, and the problem is Greatly Diminished. Sometimes I add 1/2 once of polyisobutylane(GTA fuel additive)to a FULL tank for when I'll be low-reving around in the city.

The higher the octane the faster and more comlpete the burn.

Lower octane rating will cause an incomplete burn that is not symmetrical and not repetitive across the cylinder face. Yes, the additive is designed to slow the burn for a more complete burn.

Either slowing the burn for a more complete burn or raising the octane for a more complete burn will reduce the surging (but you can not ever make it all go away, unlessen you get two sparks, either from two plugs or a double firing of a single spark plug, this is due to the desgin in/of the working cylinder).

In short just feed it high test, golly I miss Sunoco 110.

I've tried low octane gas.....I've tried high octane gas.

Makes no difference.....it still surges, like it invented the word.

There just isn't any simple, down home, easy to do, no big problem, it's all in your head, they all do that......solution.

The only thing that I've heard of that may be a permanent solution.....is the Techlusion device.

I've even heard of some guys going to a CA. BMW dealer and having the single plug heads on their RT's converted to twin-spark heads....at a cost of over $800.00 or so.

Before I resort to that.....I'll sell my RT!!

Folks..on the dual plug issue...there is no doubt the dual plug bikes are better with emission and even are less likely to surge, compared to the single plug issue.

But this isn't the primary reason why BMW redesigned to the hex head. The new EU standard in 2003 required better emissions numbers the single plug oilhead couldn't deliver. This dual-plug was only an interim fix, since this modification wouldn't be good enough for the 2007 EU standards.

There is a chance that this has already been addressed somewhere else in this thread, as I have not completely read through all of it.

This surging, seems to be what my '02 R1100 S does at 2-3 gears. The guys at the BMW shop described it as "hesitation". To me it feels like it's a lightly bucking horse, any time that I am in these two gears and not accelerating.

The guy at the shop recommended red lining it a little more, that would clear it out and make it smoother. I am happy to get it up towards the red line when going up and above 110mph or so, but most other times, it just doesn't feel right.

Am I on the same page here? Please excuse my ignorance. Good advice welcome. (I will try to read through the rest of this thread and make sure I'm not too redundant here).

Honu said:

There is a chance that this has already been addressed somewhere else in this thread, as I have not completely read through all of it.

This surging, seems to be what my '02 R1100 S does at 2-3 gears. The guys at the BMW shop described it as "hesitation". To me it feels like it's a lightly bucking horse, any time that I am in these two gears and not accelerating.

The guy at the shop recommended red lining it a little more, that would clear it out and make it smoother. I am happy to get it up towards the red line when going up and above 110mph or so, but most other times, it just doesn't feel right.

Am I on the same page here? Please excuse my ignorance. Good advice welcome. (I will try to read through the rest of this thread and make sure I'm not too redundant here).

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"Been there.....done that"......redlining I mean. Another old wives tale. Ya gotta give it to the BMW dealers, service techs, sales reps, etc. They got all the bases covered....as to "remedies".

dano said:

"Been there.....done that"......redlining I mean. Another old wives tale. Ya gotta give it to the BMW dealers, service techs, sales reps, etc. They got all the bases covered....as to "remedies".

Click to expand...

Thanks Dano. I appreciate your support. I really don't mind the surging all that much. It feels like my bike is eager to get going and doesn't want to do this "oh so very slow, through town thing". It doesn't complain at all when we are out on the twisties. So I am going to go ahead and accept that this is part of the bike, torturing her by red lining regularly won't change the fact that she's a little impatient. Thanks again

Yup.....I've pretty much accepted the fact that my RT surges. I wasn't at all happy about it at first, and I'm still not......but I've learned to live with it.

At least it doesn't have a clunky gearbox.

Oh wait.....yes it does.........

At least it doesn't have a clunky gearbox.

Oh wait.....yes it does......... [/QUOTE]
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Thanks again Dano, You made me laugh out loud. It scared my cat.

Honu said:

At least it doesn't have a clunky gearbox.

Oh wait.....yes it does.........

Click to expand...

__________________________________________________________

Thanks again Dano, You made me laugh out loud. It scared my cat. [/QUOTE]



Sometimes.....just laughing makes ya feel better about things.

BTW: I have a younger brother that lives up in your neck of the woods. He lives in Grants Pass.

He's been thinking about buying a BMW.....but I've been trying to talk him out of it.

ride4j said:

Well, I stoppped by the dealership and they were very tuned-into the surging issue. Both the owner and salesman claimed they owned 2002 RT's that they installed the Tech box on and said they now run better than stock. Also said if mine continues, when I come in for the 6,000 mi check they will install the Tech box at discount rate?
Also went on to say that I shd. run 87 octane not premium to help aleeveate the surg???
Owner said he just returned from factory training and this issue is from the oil temp sensor and computer interface??? Not the O2 sensor!

Click to expand...

Frankly...your dealer is uninformed. If he truely believes the oil temperature sensor is the reason, then BMW would have fixed it years ago. The reason why oilheads surge is because they are simply running too lean. BMW can't fix this problem without changing the map to run richer, voiding the EPA certification. Oilheads are environmentally challenged. Sorry folks...if you bought an oilhead because it has a catalytic converter and 02 sensor as your little part to save the planet...oilheads are only average according to EPA testing running overly lean with a catalytic converter. Adding fuel to richen the bike increase emissions beyond EPA limits.

I would challenge anyone to show me an oilhead that surges set up in open-loop using a European potentiometer. BMW never fixed this problem because it didn't affect the European market operating in open-loop until the R1150 series motors. Once Europe approved the new EC2 environmental standard, the oilhead was not capable of meeting the EC2 standard without using dual-plugs and would not meet the new Europe standard for 07 without a major redesign.

For the oilhead motors, BMW waited too long to react and could not admit fault without major liability. Techlusion developed the R259 device WITH BMWNA using their buy back bikes that BMW could not fix and had to buy back according to the lemon laws. Techlusion fixed all of them. However, BMW could not endorse because all Techlusion devices ADD FUEL to fix the lean fuel surge. By adding fuel, you VOID the EPA certification and technically is considered by the EPA as a defeat device.

Folks...if your oilhead surges, you have two choices. Live with it or fix it. Techlusions are not new and are on literally thousands of oilheads. I don't know of a single problem caused by the devices and they fix surging. I can install any techlusion in less than an hour and for $150-$250, the bike will never surge again. If you know how to remove the sides, you can install this device.

It sounds as if you install a Techlusion on an RT, the gas mileage will suffer somewhat.

That really doesn't bother me all that much, but....I was curious as to how much it might effect the mpg.

BTW: I have a younger brother that lives up in your neck of the woods. He lives in Grants Pass.

He's been thinking about buying a BMW.....but I've been trying to talk him out of it. [/QUOTE]


Cool. That is really my neck of the woods, I ride through there all the time on the way to the coast, or up to the Rogue river.

Why are you trying to talk him out of it? (Other than it's a bit of an addiction that takes away one's motivation for doing nearly anything else, when it's not snowing.) Your brother would add to my list of locals. I believe in safety in numbers, it's nice to ride with others, but when you gotta go you gotta go, whether or not you have company. I'm riding to the coast by myself to do some camping this weekend and wish I had someone to ride with. Most of my riding buddies are working or have other plans.

My brother owns a business in Grants Pass, and he's into dirt bikes and already has a cherry '78 Honda CB-500. He likes to run the roads on it and such. But....he needs a bigger bike, especially if I move back to WA. state and we ride together.

His "tinkering on bikes" time is limited, and I feel he'd be better served by a Japanese bike. He does like the Euro dirtbikes (he rides Maicos) so he might be lookin to a Euro road bike. He's 6-06 and I'm 6-05, so he'll need a pretty good-sized bike. He might like something like a GS.

If I felt better about BMW's.....I'd be more than happy to recommend one to him. But.....I don't.....so I can't.

My brother is crazy about camping, climbing, backpacking, rafting, and very much into kayaks.

Sounds as if you two would hit it off well...........

Techlusion cut the MPG from 47 to 43 over the last two tank fulls. Of course that last tank didnt take into my last ride at 120MPH - just testing of course...

If losing 4 MPG is the cost of making the bike run with the CORRECT mixture then so be it. I'm interested in a correctly tuned machine, EPA compliant or not. I'm only "green" (with envy) when I see a 05 RT go by.

As far as clunky gear boxes, mine isnt. Not since I drained out the dealer installed Amsoil and put in Royal Purple Max Gear 75W-90, the shifting INSTANTLY improved.

I can live with the decreased mpg.....no problem.

I went to MOBIL 1 75w/90 in the tranny / final drive of my '03 RT at approx. 1200 miles. It did improve the shifting, but it's still not nearly as smooth and positive shifting as a tranny in a Japanese bike. Been thinking about trying the MOBIL 1 90w/140 in the tranny.

Also went to MOBIL 1 15w/50 in the engine at approx. 3200 miles.

I'm going to look into the Techlusion box.........

Ken-
I wdn"t be so quick to judge people.
Read again, The problem was stated as an issue between the oil temp sensor feeding this info (cold, warm, hot) to the COMPUTER which in turn, controls fuel distribution.(lean, rich, etc.)

Others have said on this thread, that the problem was with the 02 sensor???
That being said, I appreciate your input and I now stand convinced that the Tech. box is THE fix for the bike.

Speaking of O2 sensors.......when my '03 RT was still rather new (under 3000 miles) the dealer had to put in a total of (4 @ $108.00 ea.) O2 sensors, before they got a "good" one.

Even then, BMWNA told them to install a new Cat. Converter / Muffler assembly as well. It seems that the old CC was plugged up and creating excessively high temps that the O2 sensors couldn't handle.

I still wonder / worry about that CC / Muffler and if it's actually operating properly.