Always a full stop for stop signs?

in my part of the world, a *full* stop could mean a *full* 3 second count. i couldn't pull that off without a foot down.
couple years back, i thought i was in a hurry. my R100 was completely loaded for a trip i was just beginning. i rolled thru a stop sign, making a right turn. as i was looking over my left shoulder, a big (semi) truck appeared from behind a row of parked cars. i jerked the bike to a stop, and lurched about trying to keep it upright. tore my right bicep in the process. yeah, it freakin HURT. like maybe i'm gonna pass out- that level of hurt.
to this day, i have a lumpy bicep to remind me that there is no reason to be in THAT big of a hurry. so now, i stop.

From an active LEO's perspective, I only write 'rolling stop' tickets when it is obvious that the driver of the vehicle is 'in a hurry' and really trying to cheat the stop. You know they type, rolls up fast, hard on the brakes, front end is diving, then accelerated quickly from the sign. But if the driver approached the stop in a normal and prudent manner, slows to a crawl or even a walking pace, then accelerated away at normal speeds, no ticket or stop initiated, especially hold true at busy intersections where traffic flow is "hindered" by the 'complete 3 second stop' or by the hot rod rolling stop.

Thus the reason I rarely monitor stop intersections (at least visbly) during high traffic periods. Everyone forgets how to drive in the presence of a marked patrol car!

oldnslow said:

From an active LEO's perspective, I only write 'rolling stop' tickets when it is obvious that the driver of the vehicle is 'in a hurry' and really trying to cheat the stop. You know they type, rolls up fast, hard on the brakes, front end is diving, then accelerated quickly from the sign. But if the driver approached the stop in a normal and prudent manner, slows to a crawl or even a walking pace, then accelerated away at normal speeds, no ticket or stop initiated, especially hold true at busy intersections where traffic flow is "hindered" by the 'complete 3 second stop' or by the hot rod rolling stop.

Thus the reason I rarely monitor stop intersections (at least visbly) during high traffic periods. Everyone forgets how to drive in the presence of a marked patrol car!

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good for you, for cutting some folks a bit of slack.
sometimes a little slack is a good thing, if applied with a touch of reality as the baseline for your decisions....

bmwrider88 said:

good for you, for cutting some folks a bit of slack.
sometimes a little slack is a good thing, if applied with a touch of reality as the baseline for your decisions....

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A long time ago my training officer told me, "the 'law' is what you fall back on when all other solutions to the problem won't work".

Glad I started this thread and, unlike most threads, it has gained some new life.

I think most of us don't want to live with anarchy on the roads - though sometimes that seems to be the case. I believe what we can do is ride/drive attentively, respectfully, and "generally" legally.

OK, I confess I still don't come to a complete stop at all stop signs. But I am prepared to unless there is absolutely no reason to do so. I sometimes exceed the speed limit when that is a safety issue of keeping up with traffic or there is no traffic and I believe my speed safe. I occasionally pass on the double yellow, but only when CERTAIN I can be back in my lane before a speeding approaching vehicle could be forced to brake.

In short, I try to look out not just for myself but all the other road users I encounter. We all want to get to where we are going and it should be a cooperative effort. When people give me a break (slow to let me merge or change lanes, pull out of a parking lot when they have the rightaway, slow to let me pass, etc.) I always give them a wave or thumbs-up. And, of course, I give other motorists the same courtesies. I see this happening quite a lot where I live and find it very encouraging.

I'm not encouraging you to ignore the traffic laws. Most of them are there for a reason. But attention and respect for other motorists sharing the road with you, do far more to keep you and them safe than unthinking obedience to the "rules of the road," in my opinion.

While it's nice to see even LEOs take a "reasonable" approach, there will still be cases where, if you don't make a complete stop, you're going to get written. There's a fairly quiet residential intersection I go through with some regularity and have seen several of the local constabulary parked 100 feet down, watching everyone go through. I bet they don't give anyone a break on that duty.

While such a change will never happen here, it is interesting to see how this is handled in Europe. You see very few stop signs over there. Instead, they have a system of "priority right". The vehicle entering an otherwise uncontrolled intersection from the right has the right of way, no stop or yield required. In practice, the main streets are marked for priority straight through. Probably because getting and keeping a license over there is so much more difficult and expensive than here, this system seems to work very well. Combined with the extensive use of traffic circles where there is space, the flow continues even through their very tight and crowded city centers.

I generally follow this same technique

and for the same reason... (it may have even been Rob who suggested it), except when i can't see well enough to make sure that there is a clear path.

robnye said:

I do a pause n go (MSF term) which includes a second at a full stop pretty much every time, except when riding with my recently licensed son, then it's full stop and foot down.

As an aside I use almost every opportunity I get to practice my slow riding skills including u-turns and "slow-racing"

What the practice does is often I can approach an intersection with a four way stop or red light and with proper timing never put a foot down;

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When I was 20 I could stop and never put a foot down, look and never miss anything.

Now I am 55, and I now stop. Put down at least one foot, and look carefully. If I am riding a distance, over 100 miles, fatigue can creep up on you. That can be fatal. So it is best to create the stop and look carefully habit. Acting different 10 miles from home defeats developing a habit.

If I am in so much of a hurry that I do not have time to do this, well there is a car and a truck in the driveway.

The bike is for enjoyment.

Rod

Scott C said:

Funny Story.... One day I wrote a guy a speeding ticket for doing 38 in a 20 mph clearly marked zone.

He didnt pay the ticket by mail and decided to show up in court with his lawyer. When the judge asks how do you plead, the lawyer gets up and says "not guilty your honor". The judge says to the lawyer "are you sure you dont want court supervision"? The lawyer says no so we proceed with a little trial and the judge finds the guy "not guilty". Some judges will find someone not guilty for minor traffic offenses if they show up with a lawyer because the judge knows the lawyer cost alot of money.

I really didnt care either way but after court when I am walking out, the guy I wrote the ticket to comes up to me in the hallway with a big smile and says " officer I beat you". I said "yes you did but can I ask you a question"? He said sure so I asked him if he knew what "supervision" was and he said "no". I then asked him what the lawyer cost and he said $450.00. I then told him that supervision would have cost him $125.00 with no mark on his license but if the lawyer cost him $450.00 then who really beat who?

DUH !!!

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This is the reason people don't like or respect judges, lawyers and law enforcement officers. It's a game and all three are just trying to bring as much money into the system as they can and all are happy as long as they get some of the cut.

Between the motorcycle and truck, I drive around 55.000 miles a year and I speed when I feel it's safe to do so and I run stop signs when it's safe to do so. There are times when I follow the letter of the law because the conditions make it prudent to do so. My last speeding ticket was 1998 in South Carolina. I was given the choice to pay an extra $50.00 fine and plead guilty to a charge that didn't go on my driving record. Naturally I paid the extra $50.00.

My point is drive to your abilities. Use the laws to help keep you and your fellow drivers/passengers safe, but so many of the traffic laws are made and enforced to be just a revenue stream for government and the people who live off of it.

I wouldn't come to a full stop if only: 1) I had more money than time; 2) I could tell which LEO's are reasonable and which aren't; and 3) I could see around corners before getting to them.

#1 may be true; I don't know yet. #2 You guys need signs! #3 I wish!

Tom

"Between the motorcycle and truck, I drive around 55.000 miles a year and I speed when I feel it's safe to do so and I run stop signs when it's safe to do so."

Kevin:

I will assume that anyone who drives faster than the speed limit or doesn't come to a complete, foot down stop is unsafe in your eyes. That's a lot of folks. I'm not trying to provoke you, it's what I see in my travels.

David

beemervol said:

Kevin:

I will assume that anyone who drives faster than the speed limit or doesn't come to a complete, foot down stop is unsafe in your eyes. That's a lot of folks. I'm not trying to provoke you, it's what I see in my travels.

David

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Your first sentence, by your own confession, is an 'assumption.' Those can get you in trouble, and rarely summarize what the other person (that would be ME) is truly thinking.

As for your concluding sentence, you have not provoked me, sir.

It's just that I've been a front-row-seat witness to three decades of chaos and carnage on the roads - almost always not the fault of a traffic law existing, but rather the ignoring of it.

My last word on the topic as a few posts have questioned police and their techniques.

The last officer I trained in speed enforcement wanted to 'hide' and 'catch a couple of speeders'. I suggested we sit in the open in plain view. This, I explained would be most effective because 'everybody' would slow down and we wouldn't have to write a single ticket!