ON articles on the web

Ran across some ON articles on the web, go to Shiva's articles.
why is it we can't do it online?
http://www.bmwk1200s.com/ridefast.htm

Thanks for pointing that out. Hmmm makes me wonder. Although I do know that Shiva holds the copyrights for his articles and our older agreement did not allow BMWMOA to post them on the web. But I do agree that it is interesting.

Mark11LT said:

Ran across some ON articles on the web, go to Shiva's articles.
why is it we can't do it online?
http://www.bmwk1200s.com/ridefast.htm

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Once our site is split between members and guests, we'll start using the publication rights we have been collecting for articles contrubuted to the ON. Shiva contributes his material so still owns it and can publish it as he wishes.

We have a great big list of cool things to do with our web site (in stages) once we have membership validated access. Article archives, tech article indexs, ride databases, GPS coordinates, etc.

I would suggest that we don't just scan the magazine pages.

Can I have a section for "Whats Mark11Lt doing right now" for my fanclub?

Mooommmmm!!!!!!!! He's doing it again!!!!

Mark11LT said:

I would suggest that we don't just scan the magazine pages.

Can I have a section for "Whats Mark11Lt doing right now" for my fanclub?

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Only if you install a web cam.

Mark's trouble making checklist for today:
1. Go to church smelling like beer.
2. Argue with wife about new bike.
3. make a mess in the house while wife from above is working, blame 4 year old daughter.
4. Talk to buddy on phone, insult his bike, and make rude comments about St. Patty's day.
5. Sneak some cheese popcorn, after being told I don't need to eat any.
6. write scathing letter to Cheese popcorn people about the lack of cheese on 43% of the kernels
7. Leave cheese popcorn finger prints on keyboard.
8. Stir up trouble on the net.

day ain't over yet,

Mark11LT said:

Mark's trouble making checklist for today:
1. Go to church smelling like beer.
2. Argue with wife about new bike.
3. make a mess in the house while wife from above is working, blame 4 year old daughter.
4. Talk to buddy on phone, insult his bike, and make rude comments about St. Patty's day.
5. Sneak some cheese popcorn, after being told I don't need to eat any.
6. write scathing letter to Cheese popcorn people about the lack of cheese on 43% of the kernels
7. Leave cheese popcorn finger prints on keyboard.
8. Stir up trouble on the net.

day ain't over yet,

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Day may not be over, but that's a good list so far.

Mark11LT said:

Mark's trouble making checklist for today:

3. make a mess in the house while wife from above is working, blame 4 year old daughter.

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Now I know why people have kids! It is to have someone to blame stuff on


So what is on the list for today?

Greg Feeler said:

Shiva contributes his material so still owns it and can publish it as he wishes.

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I did the same thing with my article, I waited for it to be published (which might have been the hardest part) then I put it up on my website.

been pretty slow today so far, a few lowlights....
1. harrassed a few people at work, in regards to hunting and fishing abilities.
2. attempted to convince a female ex-coworker via e-mail that she still is in love with me and not her current fiance, and that her potential marriage is doomed
3. Called my buddy to have him call and leave a message at home that he thinks his old GS is about to be bought, and I better get off the dime and grab it.
4. forgot my daughter fav. blankie at day care and also grabbed some other kids artwork/info sheets

I'm getting sick (thanks Manic) and I'm a little slow today.

Greg Feeler said:

Once our site is split between members and guests, we'll start using the publication rights we have been collecting for articles contrubuted to the ON. Shiva contributes his material so still owns it and can publish it as he wishes.

We have a great big list of cool things to do with our web site (in stages) once we have membership validated access. Article archives, tech article indexs, ride databases, GPS coordinates, etc.

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is there a schedule for this great big list? seems like youve been telling us "real soon" for a long time.

here's a fun thing to do on a project: tell us the date of the milestone for the split, and tell us the gating items - what is in the way (specifically) of the mag showing up online? and who exactly is responsible for these items. i live in a fantasy world and in my little world i call this accountability. who is getting what done and when will they have it done?

i have this nagging fear that there are all these "mother may i?" milestones in the form of votes from the board, etc, and they are planned for 90 days time, and [insert reason, not results here] going on.

will we see something like this?

thanks!

username said:

is there a schedule for this great big list? seems like youve been telling us "real soon" for a long time.

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Well, not just me - the rest of the "web team" as well. But good point and good question. I'll try to explain what's going on - at least my part of it.

here's a fun thing to do on a project: tell us the date of the milestone for the split, and tell us the gating items - what is in the way (specifically) of the mag showing up online? and who exactly is responsible for these items. i live in a fantasy world and in my little world i call this accountability. who is getting what done and when will they have it done?

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Those are great ideas - I use them every day in my day job. I'm the I.T. manager for a national company and the ONLY way I can get things done and keep my management happy is that way. However... in a volunteer organization like the 'MOA it doesn't work quite the same way.

In making improvements to the web site the Board has paid for third party software and professional services when we had to, but we have a tradiition of member volunteer effort on our activities. That's what we are doing right now on the web site. That's always open to review, but we do have a good team of pretty savy folks and the price is right.

i have this nagging fear that there are all these "mother may i?" milestones in the form of votes from the board, etc, and they are planned for 90 days time, and [insert reason, not results here] going on.

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Although the Board has to approve certain things - that's their job - the outline for the web site upgrades have been approved in general for over a year. It's really and only a matter of working through the technical details.

Remember, last year's International Rally was the first time we were able to have folks register securely on-line, or maintaine their memberships, or buy Country Store goods. The software implemented to make that all possible took much longer than hoped to get running right. And, just about the time we got it running ok last fall, there was a major upgrade. That held back work from the Web Tech Team on developing a "unified" login between the secure area and the forum and new member's only areas we have planned. I'm involved with content, so it's the Tech Team folks who can answer for where that project is right now, but I know there is work being done.

will we see something like this?

thanks!

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The best answer I can give for now is "over the next year". That is supposed to leave us some wiggle room for problems or delays, and also implies phased in enhancements. The plan is to use the web site for what web sites are good for and the print for what print is good for. Each will compliment the other in ways that make them both stonger. The point is to have reasons for the members to look at both media and to make them both better through a process of "extending" one into the other. Considering that the 'MOA has waited over 32 years to get to this point, a year of media coordination is pretty fast, and it lets us "measure twice and cut once" as we implement new features. Hope that answers your questions.

Greg Feeler said:

The plan is to use the web site for what web sites are good for and the print for what print is good for.

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Whose opinion are we using to determine what's good? What if some members wants all the information they pay for to be delivered on-line? What if other members don't care if something has been seen on our web site?

Each will compliment the other in ways that make them both stonger. The point is to have reasons for the members to look at both media and to make them both better through a process of "extending" one into the other.

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This is part of the equation. There was a meeting held nearly three years ago to effect this synergy.

The other part of the question involves the process by which the information that comes into the BMW MOA gets turned into value-added (relevant) content. We've heard the concept of "news" and "resources"... but channeling all news through a single filter not only limits the perspective on the news, it reduces the news' community value by limiting the number of perspectives that can be shared.

Could I please request another experiment in content creation?

When the press kit for the R1200GS HP becomes available, could we please post it to our web site with no editing... raw PR: pictures and prose... and then let members discuss their opinions about the bike's implications here on the forum? Then randomly select a person to edit those discussions into an article for the BMW ON?

This is an excellent example of "extending" one medium into another, and I think that an article full of individual members opinions would be a lot more interesting to read than an edited press release.

If the information shows up on the forum when it becomes available from BMW, and isn't embargoed until it appears in the magazine, then the people here on the forum could easily meet any print deadlines.

This might be a good way to bridge the gap until we get to whenever we're going to be "next year."

Ian

Visian said:

If the information shows up on the forum when it becomes available from BMW, and isn't embargoed until it appears in the magazine, then the people here on the forum could easily meet any print deadlines.

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I'm sorry but that is incredibly naive. Information about new models is considered a priority and placed into the magazine as soon as it arrives (usually past deadline).

A concise edited article about people's reaction to a new model would be interesting, though (and a supplement to the "Rider to Rider" letters). Why don't you take the helm and make it happen with the R1200GS-HP? The press kit and photos will be available on the internet from a number of sources as soon as they are available and there is already a lively debate about each new model on this forum.

I'm sure the web team plans to have text and photos on new models here in a members only section but as you suggest, why wait? You certainly could do it now.

Michael Cohen
Art Director, BMW ON

Here is a naive question,
Is there an anti-forum/website agenda from the ON powers (from what I've heard the real power brokers in MOA) ??
Michael's comments just reflect that view to me?
Are they afraid of being subjugated, passed by?? why isn't the website receive equal billing? press kit released here?
As I've said before,
Most recently to Mr. Gore, nice invention but it won't last. Me and Gutenburg agree the printed word is the only thing that will last.
mark

Mark11LT said:

Here is a naive question,
Is there an anti-forum/website agenda from the ON powers (from what I've heard the real power brokers in MOA) ??
Michael's comments just reflect that view to me?

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I have no idea in what I said gave you the impression of an anti-website view. I would love to see the website utilized more. I guess I haven't been using my "ON powers" correctly.

I bet I would like to see the same things online as you. Hopefully the website will be set up for it soon.

Michael Cohen
Art Director, BMW ON

Naive is evian spelled backward.

If I wanted to speculate on Internet rumors, I'd write for the RA. <= that's a wink, RA bretheren....

Please send the web team the press kit when it comes, and *all* the pictures and information that comes and stand back!

And of course, I'll volunteer for a chance on the test ride list. Wonder where it's going to be? Tierra del Fuego, I hope!

Ian

Mark11LT said:

press kit released here?

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Mark -- there's the "press kit" and then there's the real information, the exclusive photo, the publicity opportunity (ie: new model intro's, access to executives, etc.).

Ian

personally, i dont *just* want the BMW-spewed press-kit crap spoon-fed to me in paper format. that is nice and all, but the source is tainted. i want to see real riders' impressions of these new bikes and products, and i want to see them ASAP. i think that'd be good use of the web, and it is certainly how these forums are used. i think we could be taking greater advantage of the knowledge of our membership by having folks that represent different genres/makes of bikes weigh in on a new model, and just put it on the web.

i dont see why we cant have feature writers for the website - people that are tasked with putting together stories and articles. we do it for the magazine, but it takes FOREVER to see anything. kbasa kind of did this when the new r1200gs came out, and then we he got his own bike, he took it apart, critiqued it, and posted lots of photos. nothing even close has been presented in the mag, or anywhere else that i've seen, and what he did is an example of the power of the web and motivated people. more information, sooner.

the magazine is great and all, but as i think ive said before, it's an un-indexed, unsearchable, non-archived source of information that arrives around 60 days after whatever content it has could be considered "news." if im thinking about buying a new ST, would i be smarter to post in here for advice, or write a letter to the editor of ON, and then wait 30-60 days for it to appear, then wait 30-60 days for my fellow bmw enthusiasts to reply? posting it here is obviously way smarter.

this is heresy, but i say turn the web team loose, and see of the magazine can keep up. our current model is to slow the web-based stuff down to the pace of the magazine. that's not an accurate reflection of how the world is moving, and where this club needs to be to be a part of the future, as opposed to a relic of the past.

as if to prove my point, i posted this note, then hit "new posts" and saw rob nye's thread. here he and chace go ride two new models, take a bunch of good pictures, and share their feedback for the models. let's pretend this was 1990. in about 3 months, you'd see this information in the magazine. that's 90 days that MOA members would be going without this sort of feedback to help them make a purchasing decision! 1/4 of the year, and for some of you northerners, most of your riding/sales season! (rob, great report.)