Both have gone bad. I know the Neutral sensor is a major job requiring the tranny to be dropped but what about the Clutch sensor? It does require the tank to be removed but are there any other things I should know before I try to fix this? I just spent a ton of money on the 60k service and a new Hall switch so I'd rather not take it back to the dealer if I don't have to.
"Keep the rubber side down"
The clutch interlock switch is contained within the clutch lever housing. I haven't traced the wires from it on an RT, but you may be able to get it unplugged from the main harness without removing the gas tank if you have small hands. If not, you have to slide the tank back to get to the connector.
Anyway - to remove the switch: cut the wires going to the switch near the housing. slide a deep socket down over the wire ( 12 mm maybe??) and remove the switch from the clutch lever housing.
Disconnect the connector at the other end of the wires from the main harness.
Use a pair of long thin needlenose pliers to tighten up the new switch.
Plug connector into harness.
The neutral light switch is on the back of the transmission - both the gear indicator and the neutral light switch are stacked together and held on by just two bolts. You have to pull the swingarm to get to it because the swingarm blocks access just enough to piss off the average bear. If you are clever, you may be able to remove the switches without dropping the swingarm, but I have never heard of anyone who has done that.
Very helpful information. Thanks
"Keep the rubber side down"
How do you know this? What symptoms, please? Seems odd for two independent failures.Originally Posted by Stokes73
..and that's when the problem started? Or was the HES replaced in hopes of fixing the original problem, whatever that was?I just spent a ton of money on... and a new Hall switch...
.
--
Doug Raymond,
R1150RT '02, R1200GSA '11
The problem started before the HES was replaced. The first symptom was the bike won't start with the clutch engaged. The second was the neutral light does not illuminate and the bike won't start. If I rock the bike on the front suspension the neutral sensor will engage and the light comes on and the bike will start. The shop tested the switches during the 60k service and they both came up faulty.
"Keep the rubber side down"
It's actually pretty common. Both of those switches are famous for their unreliability.
Stokes, you can fix the clutch switch for free. Find the wires going into the clutch housing (black sheath with two yellow (I think) wires inside). Cut the wires and wire them together. Presto, done. Be advised, you'll go for a bronco ride if you hit the starter with the clutch out, because you've defeated that interlock.
Also, if you don't want to do that, here's a little trick if you get stuck. Carry a thin piece of wire. If you get stuck, pull the starter relay, turn on the key, and jump hole 2 to hole 6. Vroom! off you go.
Sorry, I'm not sure I grasp this.
First, I assume "with clutch engaged" = "without pulling in the clutch lever".
So is the following problem sequence correct?
1. First problem: bike will not start in gear, even with clutch lever pulled in (so clutch switch or its wiring is open-circuit)
2. OK, for several months we get by, by starting only in neutral
3, Second problem: neutral switch (or its wiring) goes intermittent. For a while we can 'rock' the front suspension to get neutral light to come on, and then start the bike. (Does rocking mean bouncing, or jogging back and forth in gear to nudge the transmission?)
4. Finally, rocking wasn't working, so bike often won't start.
5. At 60k service the dealer's diagnostics showed both switches faulty, but they were not yet replaced. The HES was replaced as preventive maintenance, though it was not showing any problem?
I appreciate Jim Moore's tip, that both switches are notoriously unreliable, I didn't know.
I still wonder if there could be a common cause, such as a kink or fraying in a wiring harness. For instance, I can't see how bouncing the front suspension (while in neutral?) would have much effect on the neutral switch at the rear of the tranny. Isn't it true that the dealer's test just showed open circuit for the two switches, not necessarily a problem with the switches themselves?
Assuming you can still 'rock' the bike into neutral, have you tried wiggling all wires up front instead of rocking, to bring on the neutral light? Most suspicious would be any point where the neutral wire comes near the clutch wire, perhaps under the tank (I don't know).
--
Doug Raymond,
R1150RT '02, R1200GSA '11
Doug:
There is no area on the bike where the wiring of these two interlock switches come together, except in the Motronic.
The neutral light switch on the 1100 is especially known to get 'lazy' because it apparently lives in a very hostile environment at the back of the transmission. There is an o-ring between the neutral light switch and the gear indicator switch and the transmission, and I suppose that has something to do with the 'lazy' light, but I haven't heard any definitive statement about that. The switch is not rebuildable or take apart-able. My 1100 has had an intermittent 'lazy' light for the last 80,000 miles - I can go months without the light being hesitant about coming on, but when it does I sometimes just wait it out, and it eventually lights up. Sometimes I have to play with the shifter to get it on (wiggle shifter slightly, shift into gear, then out of gear, whatever works for you). I don't rock the bike because that just looks silly. Although this is not a 'They All Do That', it is definitely a 'ALOTOFTHEM Do That'. There is no real reason to fix the lazy light unless it becomes totally unemployed, and sits around drinking your beer while you are at work. As long as your clutch interlock switch works, the lazy light is just a small (and usually infrequent) inconvenience. Replace it when you rebuild your clutch or transmission.
The clutch interlock switch is an "it works or it doesn't" situation. Once it stops working, it doesn't come back, as far as I know. It is relatively cheap and easy to fix. Some people just cut the wires and twist them together (and some other people start pulling their hair out, wringing their hands, and rending their clothes when they hear about people twisting them together, screaming 'Caveat Emptor - you're gonna die"). Choose your poison, I guess. The important thing is to do one or the other to this switch. Otherwise, you are gonna stall your bike some Friday night during rush hour at the busiest intersection in town, with some guy behind you who has to get to his mistresses house within the next 15 seconds or she ain't gonna put out. And there you will sit trying to get the bike into neutral while your adrenal gland is pumping out 6 gallons a second.
Which reminds me. I cut the side stand wires when I was diagnosing a 'no start' situation. I need to put them back together before I kill myself by riding off with the sidestand down.
I figure someone would have a little known work around thanks.
"Keep the rubber side down"
It's pretty simple really. Pull in the clutch lever, disengage I suppose, and the bike won't start whether in gear or in neutral.
With the bike in neutral the the neutral light doesn't illuminate and the bike won't start. Compressing the front forks a few times, for whatever reason, seems to do something and the neutral light will illuminate then the bike will start.
The test of the switches was done as part of the 60k services and at that time I wasn't willing to spend the $ to fix the neutral switch. Probably should have had them fix the clutch sensor when they did the HES since they had to pull the tank anyway but again budget constraints won out.
"Keep the rubber side down"
Flars,
Thanks for background and tips.
A doorbell button could be mounted near the clutch lever, wired in parallel with the clutch switch, for those living with the problem until the next tranny rebuild.
--
Doug Raymond,
R1150RT '02, R1200GSA '11
Posting Permissions
.jpg)
Reply With Quote