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Final Drive Issue 2008 R1200RT
- Thread starter PaulWitt
- Start date
W
WILDPIG
Guest
you wont have any luck with bmw n/a.. talk to eric -- he's the vp i promise you his feelings cant be hurt............. i'm really suprised yall continue to say bmw even has a problem with final drives or warped rotors or abs pumps......maybe this post will also get deleted by the coolaid moderators-- i speak the truth bout the r's an rt's an the bmw die hards dont like the truth....
From BMW Customer Service
Hi! Sorry, we did not return your call. You mentioned "final drive" in your message. We checked our data base and note NO history of any final drive problems for any of our products. Therefore, we assume you called us in error, therefore our reason for not returning your call.
If you purchased a product from us and have questions please contact your authorized BMW dealer. If his answer is not what you wanted to hear, continue to question different dealers until you get the answer you desire, it's out there somewhere.
And remember, your motorcycle is always in need of service, so drop by your authorized BMW dealer for whatever service he says is necessary...and bring at least $500.00 cash and a good credit card. Summer sale on BMW jackets going on right now...50% off, so for as little as $2,312.00 you can have the latest design from our China plant.
Thanks...and remember have all your seals replaced quarterly...at your authorized BMW dealer.
Tongue-in-cheek, kinda
Hi! Sorry, we did not return your call. You mentioned "final drive" in your message. We checked our data base and note NO history of any final drive problems for any of our products. Therefore, we assume you called us in error, therefore our reason for not returning your call.
If you purchased a product from us and have questions please contact your authorized BMW dealer. If his answer is not what you wanted to hear, continue to question different dealers until you get the answer you desire, it's out there somewhere.
And remember, your motorcycle is always in need of service, so drop by your authorized BMW dealer for whatever service he says is necessary...and bring at least $500.00 cash and a good credit card. Summer sale on BMW jackets going on right now...50% off, so for as little as $2,312.00 you can have the latest design from our China plant.
Thanks...and remember have all your seals replaced quarterly...at your authorized BMW dealer.
Tongue-in-cheek, kinda
PaulWitt
New member
Hey, I got a call back today and an email returned. They will be looking into my issue......no promises though. You know, this is a thorn in my side, but I'm with Robo.....I love BMW's bikes and wouldn't hesitate to buy another. Maybe I'm just strange.
Parts arrived today and I should have my bike back tomorrow. Headed to PA next week for the rally.
Parts arrived today and I should have my bike back tomorrow. Headed to PA next week for the rally.
flyingw1600gt
New member
I sure hope it works out that you can get your scooter fixed in time for the rally. You mentioned getting an email answered? From your dealer or from BMW directly? If from BMW, could you post or PM me the email address. While I wait for word from my dealer, maybe I can whine to BMW directly......after all I have spare time since I can't ride my RT! Thanks.
PaulWitt
New member
I would have had my bike back today, but the dealer decided he needed to order new bolts for the rear caliper. Now.......that means if all goes well, they should have the bike ready by Tuesday and I'm planning on leaving for PA on Thursday. Below is the response that I got from BMW. No word on coverage yet.
Customerservice@bmwmotorcycles.com
Dear Paul,
Thank you for contacting BMW Motorrad USA.
Your case has been forwarded to Anthony at 1-800-831-1117, extension 2594. Anthony is currently researching your inquiry and will be in contact with you shortly to assist you further.
The BMW Motorrad Customer Relations and Services Department is available Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time. You can reach us at 1-800-831-1117.
Regards,
Megan Laney
BMW Motorrad USA
Customerservice@bmwmotorcycles.com
Dear Paul,
Thank you for contacting BMW Motorrad USA.
Your case has been forwarded to Anthony at 1-800-831-1117, extension 2594. Anthony is currently researching your inquiry and will be in contact with you shortly to assist you further.
The BMW Motorrad Customer Relations and Services Department is available Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time. You can reach us at 1-800-831-1117.
Regards,
Megan Laney
BMW Motorrad USA
flyingw1600gt
New member
That's good news. Is there a warranty with the new FD?
flyingw1600gt
New member
It is the latest revision. If you look closely you can see a vent has been added to the top. The new FD is warranted for 2 years or 24K miles. At least its back on the road and we're headed to the Rally beer tent tomorrow morning
Enjoy the ride to the Rally Paul. What's the function of the vent hole?
I have received an e-mail informing me that my issue is being forwarded to BMW NA and someone will be contacting me. No word from my dealer yet. Hopefully it won't be another two weeks of waiting
PaulWitt
New member
I'm not exactly sure what the vent hole accomplishes. Maybe someone can chime in and let us know.
Good luck with your issue.
Just so everyone is aware, I had no side to side play in my final drive the failure was the sealed bearing internally. I know everyone looks for that play but mine was tight.
Good luck with your issue.
Just so everyone is aware, I had no side to side play in my final drive the failure was the sealed bearing internally. I know everyone looks for that play but mine was tight.
marchyman
Cam Killer
Allows the pressure to equalize between inside and outside of the drive. Some believe that a reason for hexhead leaky FD seals is a build up of internal pressure when the drive gets hot. If so a vent will help.
D
D-Mac
Guest
The vent is a good development.
I've blown TWO seals on my 2010 RT. Both went at the end of long days in the saddle. I (think) I caught both just in time before something very bad happened. I suspect a good portion of the FD failures might be the result of blown seals.
The vent should help with this. A lot. More than reducing the amount of final drive fluid has done.
Seal replacement is a relatively easy thing to do if you catch it in time. The seal must be driven to the correct depth, and BMW has a driver tool for this. It's not heavy, but costs $75 from the dealer. I know at least two guys who are making "roadside seal replacement" kits for the BMWs. I'm likely going to do the same after losing 3 days and having my bike towed through half of Utah due to blown seals.
I've blown TWO seals on my 2010 RT. Both went at the end of long days in the saddle. I (think) I caught both just in time before something very bad happened. I suspect a good portion of the FD failures might be the result of blown seals.
The vent should help with this. A lot. More than reducing the amount of final drive fluid has done.
Seal replacement is a relatively easy thing to do if you catch it in time. The seal must be driven to the correct depth, and BMW has a driver tool for this. It's not heavy, but costs $75 from the dealer. I know at least two guys who are making "roadside seal replacement" kits for the BMWs. I'm likely going to do the same after losing 3 days and having my bike towed through half of Utah due to blown seals.
flyingw1600gt
New member
After two weeks of waiting, numerous phone calls ( some not returned ) my local dealer informed me that my 1200RT is out of warranty. I called BMW NA to appeal and learned in 2 minutes what I waited two weeks to hear from my dealer. They need a "dealer diagnosis" that my final drive has failed. That official examination of course would be at my own expense. Maybe BMW will honor some portion of the warranty, maybe not. I have made such a nuisance of myself to get a response from the dealer's service department about the warranty that the queue for them to perform said diagnosis suddenly went from 1 week ( when I spoke to them last week ) to 3+ weeks now.
Bottom line.....no help for me from BMW NA or the local dealer. The good news is that I have the ability to repair it myself. The bad news is I also have the ability to purchase another brand of motorcycle in the future. It's too bad really. I have been a big fan of BMW brand for many years and patronize the local dealer when spending my BMW motorcycling dollars. I'll be rethinking those options as I repair my final drive.
Bottom line.....no help for me from BMW NA or the local dealer. The good news is that I have the ability to repair it myself. The bad news is I also have the ability to purchase another brand of motorcycle in the future. It's too bad really. I have been a big fan of BMW brand for many years and patronize the local dealer when spending my BMW motorcycling dollars. I'll be rethinking those options as I repair my final drive.
f14rio
New member
from an indepent mainternece site
Hexhead Rear Drives: With the advent of the Hexhead R1200s and the transverse mounted engine K1200s in 2005 MY, another new rear drive design was introduced. Originally they were said to be maintenance free units that never needed to have their oil changed. These rear drives did not even have a drain bolt, nor did they have any easy fill point. Early failures were rampant according to the internet. Beginning in 2007 MY, BMW changed its mind and stated that a 600 mile oil change was needed, after which the unit could be considered maintenance free.
There was no drain for the earlier 2007 models, so the units had to be unbolted from their stay and hung down to drain from the level check plug. Later 2007 and the 2008 and later units have a drain hole. The failure rate dropped noticeably when the oil change at 600 miles was implemented.
Which Oil Is Best: There is much discussion of oil viscosities being the cause of failures on the Hexhead style units. I personally think this is bunk. BMW now recommends using 75W90 GL-5 synthetic gear oil in the final drive. I agree that if Crisco cooking oil were used a failure would be predictable, but the difference between a 75W140 GL-5 synthetic oil as used in the earlier models and the 75W90 GL-5 synthetic oil suggested for these units would not be significant. High quality gears are high quality gears and good bearings are good bearings. We used to run 80W90 non synthetic oils in everything from Chevy pickup trucks to airhead motorcycles without failure. I once saw Bob Brown fill a transmission on his R80G/S with 10W40 SG engine oil during an emergency when we were in Baja Mexico and ran that oil for the next many thousands of miles because we forgot to change it back at the end of the trip. These heavy metal parts are just not that fussy about oil. ThatÔÇÖs my story and IÔÇÖm sticking to it.
BMWÔÇÖs Stand on the Failures ÔÇô From My Point of View: BMW has an advantage in minimizing the failure-cause data available to the general public on these newer units. Almost all have been covered under warranty, which must be done at a BMW authorized service center. So, smaller independent repair shops like us havenÔÇÖt had the chance to see failed units to get good reliable data. However, the friends that I have working in BMW authorized shops have stated that the number of failures has radically diminished since the oil change at 600 miles has been implemented. This suggests to me that we are possibly looking at a problem with a machining/casting debris issue that is lessened when the oil is changed. Or, BMW has upped its quality control. Or both.
BMW Extended Warranty On Rear Drives: There are lots of rumblings on the internet that BMW has officially extended the warranty on rear drive unit failures. I have not seen this in print (we do get all the BMW Service Information Bulletins here, just like the big guys do) and I have spoken with dealership principals who also say they have not received anything from BMW stating that there is an official extension. However, there have been many instances when BMW has offered ÔÇ£Good WillÔÇØ assistance on rear drive unit failures for bikes well outside the 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty. This ÔÇ£Good WillÔÇØ coverage seems to be done on a case-to-case basis, but does seem to be available.
Hexhead Rear Drives: With the advent of the Hexhead R1200s and the transverse mounted engine K1200s in 2005 MY, another new rear drive design was introduced. Originally they were said to be maintenance free units that never needed to have their oil changed. These rear drives did not even have a drain bolt, nor did they have any easy fill point. Early failures were rampant according to the internet. Beginning in 2007 MY, BMW changed its mind and stated that a 600 mile oil change was needed, after which the unit could be considered maintenance free.
There was no drain for the earlier 2007 models, so the units had to be unbolted from their stay and hung down to drain from the level check plug. Later 2007 and the 2008 and later units have a drain hole. The failure rate dropped noticeably when the oil change at 600 miles was implemented.
Which Oil Is Best: There is much discussion of oil viscosities being the cause of failures on the Hexhead style units. I personally think this is bunk. BMW now recommends using 75W90 GL-5 synthetic gear oil in the final drive. I agree that if Crisco cooking oil were used a failure would be predictable, but the difference between a 75W140 GL-5 synthetic oil as used in the earlier models and the 75W90 GL-5 synthetic oil suggested for these units would not be significant. High quality gears are high quality gears and good bearings are good bearings. We used to run 80W90 non synthetic oils in everything from Chevy pickup trucks to airhead motorcycles without failure. I once saw Bob Brown fill a transmission on his R80G/S with 10W40 SG engine oil during an emergency when we were in Baja Mexico and ran that oil for the next many thousands of miles because we forgot to change it back at the end of the trip. These heavy metal parts are just not that fussy about oil. ThatÔÇÖs my story and IÔÇÖm sticking to it.
BMWÔÇÖs Stand on the Failures ÔÇô From My Point of View: BMW has an advantage in minimizing the failure-cause data available to the general public on these newer units. Almost all have been covered under warranty, which must be done at a BMW authorized service center. So, smaller independent repair shops like us havenÔÇÖt had the chance to see failed units to get good reliable data. However, the friends that I have working in BMW authorized shops have stated that the number of failures has radically diminished since the oil change at 600 miles has been implemented. This suggests to me that we are possibly looking at a problem with a machining/casting debris issue that is lessened when the oil is changed. Or, BMW has upped its quality control. Or both.
BMW Extended Warranty On Rear Drives: There are lots of rumblings on the internet that BMW has officially extended the warranty on rear drive unit failures. I have not seen this in print (we do get all the BMW Service Information Bulletins here, just like the big guys do) and I have spoken with dealership principals who also say they have not received anything from BMW stating that there is an official extension. However, there have been many instances when BMW has offered ÔÇ£Good WillÔÇØ assistance on rear drive unit failures for bikes well outside the 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty. This ÔÇ£Good WillÔÇØ coverage seems to be done on a case-to-case basis, but does seem to be available.
flyingw1600gt
New member
I pulled my FD apart today and discovered that the inboard main bearing has failed and is the culprit for the roughness felt in the wheel rotation. The input shaft rotation is perfect so I'm leaving it alone. It took me about 3 hours to make the tools I needed and about an hour to get the FD apart. I'm going to replace the bearing and all the seals on both sides. Ordered the parts today for $200. I may even add a vent as well. All in all I'm confident that I can repair my FD in short order and ride on into the sunset.
No, I won't have the latest and greatest FD that BMW has to offer but I understand how to fix these things now should the trouble repeat itself.
