New to Forum, Is there Classifies

Mark11LT said:

I'll never understand the we have to be fair to the "non-internet-users"
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Life ain't fair, we all realize this. Why are we being punished because Joe caveman ain't online?

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I think snow storms make me cranky

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Mark,
Life isn't fair but the leaders of a member-based organization have to take their best shot at it. That other guy has just as much right to his or her wants as you do.

I prescribe a week of 70-degree days, open rolling roads connecting serious twisties, no traffic and even less cops. Evenings to include ample amounts of adult beverages.

Greg, out of the 38k people who get the magazine, how many voted last time? 3k? Hmm, out of the forum folks (~3k) how many voted? I bet over 1k did. Seems to me if you want to win you should be courting the most active folks of the club, and attend to their wishes.
I dont see someone online who is running, guess what, they dont get my vote, cause they have no idea what is going on here, and they will do nothing to change that.
Eventually everyone will be online, and the club's most active members are here, just look at the stuff we do together, it would never happen without the forum. It has gotten me through the winter so far without killing anyone and I am very grateful for it.
The percentage of folks who care about the club reside here in the forum in far greater numbers than the membership in general. I will cast my vote accordingly. Just dont bring the sheep around, ok?

Greg Feeler said:

Mark,
Life isn't fair but the leaders of a member-based organization have to take their best shot at it. That other guy has just as much right to his or her wants as you do.

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what does this other guy want?
no web prescence, mimio-graphed one page newsletter, smoke signals???

I miss your point maybe? who are we leaving out?

My point, yes I have the choice, but decline to take advantage of it, because of my own priorities. But now where did I say quit doing, stop, hold the phone....

Much like joe caveman can use this electronic media, but chooses not to. Joe Caveman has made the choice not to buy a computer, to be online, etc. He has not made it a priority, joe caveman has decided for themselves.



How can I help?
What can I do?

mark

lorazepam said:

Greg, out of the 38k people who get the magazine, how many voted last time? 3k? Hmm, out of the forum folks (~3k) how many voted? I bet over 1k did. Seems to me if you want to win you should be courting the most active folks of the club, and attend to their wishes.
I dont see someone online who is running, guess what, they dont get my vote, cause they have no idea what is going on here, and they will do nothing to change that.
Eventually everyone will be online, and the club's most active members are here, just look at the stuff we do together, it would never happen without the forum. It has gotten me through the winter so far without killing anyone and I am very grateful for it.
The percentage of folks who care about the club reside here in the forum in far greater numbers than the membership in general. I will cast my vote accordingly. Just dont bring the sheep around, ok?

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If I'm reading you right you think the wants of folks who spend a lot of time here on the forum are at cross purposes to those who don't? If so, then I guess I'd need you to explain why you think that's so, and what kind of different interests you see.

There's no doubt that on-line activity is going to grow. That's why the Board has spent a lot of member's money and volunteer effort to make improvements to our infrastructure necessary to support things you haven't seen yet, but will over the next year. A lot of foundation has been poured, but please consider that percentage-wise the money to do what we have so far has come mostly from members who - at least yet - are not here yet. But, I believe if we build it they will come.

Over the last three years I have put in hundreds of hours helping to design and build a whole new on-line interface for the 'MOA. However, let me make this very clear - although I'm proud of all the work I've done to move the 'MOA into the present era, I'm not the only one - it's been a team effort. Rob Nye and I have effectively been the "geek squad" on the Board - BUT we've had total support from the other Board members - even those you don't see here making posts.

The web Tech Team also deserves a lot of credit - everyone has ideas and they all help. And, don't forget the folks who had the vision to build the first 'MOA site many years ago. Trust me, there is NO lack of support for building a much larger Internet presence for the BMW MOA.

But, as I said - almost all of what's been done so far is backend stuff, so it's going to be a few more months before things start to happen publicly. Frankly, in a volunteer organization things take a long time to happen, but the labor price is right.

As far as your percentage anaylisis I'd have to say we'd both be wild-ass guessing if we tried to go down that road, and I only do that if we are both holding glasses of cold beer. The real point is to build services for all the membership.

As for the sheep, Peekaboo will be at Ohio for all to see - you really need to meet her.

Mark11LT said:

what does this other guy want?
no web prescence, mimio-graphed one page newsletter, smoke signals???

I miss your point maybe? who are we leaving out?

My point, yes I have the choice, but decline to take advantage of it, because of my own priorities. But now where did I say quit doing, stop, hold the phone....

Much like joe caveman can use this electronic media, but chooses not to. Joe Caveman has made the choice not to buy a computer, to be online, etc. He has not made it a priority, joe caveman has decided for themselves.



How can I help?
What can I do?

mark

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Mark,
Dang if this thread didn't get confused. I was responding to your comment that "I'll never understand the we have to be fair to the "non-internet-users", and then you went on to say life isn't fair. My point is we have to try to be fair in running this organization. That's all. To say a member can't list something for sale on both the web and print is, in my mind, not fair. Just as it isn't fair now to not have a web "flea market" for on-line types because "that's already done" in the ON.

Hey, I run the I.T. Department for a national company and part of my job is to push through new technology projects. If I go shopping for something and I can't find it on the 'net, as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist, so I feel your pain. Even at that, my company gets more hits from our yellow page advertisements than we do from our web site. It's all about balance and respecting other people's choices.

As for how you can help, I fully intend to hit you up with some ideas "soon" - you have so much fire in your belly for this there has to be a way to put the rubber to the road.

The reason I think the idea of allowing a person to post in one place at a time is to be fair to the people who are purchasing, so that they don't get their hopes on something that is already sold.

I agree it ain't fair but there are lots of things that ain't fair. I am hoping it is polite. If the concensus is that people should be able to list in both places - then we allow people to list in both places.

The system will self level.

I also see lots of logic to Loraz's point of this being the new BMW MOA Community that he likes. This community has evolved and become part of the MOA, we need to figure out how to merge the two different approaches to the MOA. There are people who the MOA is the monthly magazine, a rally or three a year, and the anon book. Then there is the new digital community that has come about. The two are not exclusive, but the digital community just happens to be the "faster" of the two. So now the rest of the MOA and its infrastructure needs to catch up.

BradfordBenn said:

The reason I think the idea of allowing a person to post in one place at a time is to be fair to the people who are purchasing, so that they don't get their hopes on something that is already sold.

I agree it ain't fair but there are lots of things that ain't fair. I am hoping it is polite. If the concensus is that people should be able to list in both places - then we allow people to list in both places.

The system will self level.

I also see lots of logic to Loraz's point of this being the new BMW MOA Community that he likes. This community has evolved and become part of the MOA, we need to figure out how to merge the two different approaches to the MOA. There are people who the MOA is the monthly magazine, a rally or three a year, and the anon book. Then there is the new digital community that has come about. The two are not exclusive, but the digital community just happens to be the "faster" of the two. So now the rest of the MOA and its infrastructure needs to catch up.

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Well said.

BradfordBenn said:

The reason I think the idea of allowing a person to post in one place at a time is to be fair to the people who are purchasing, so that they don't get their hopes on something that is already sold.

I agree it ain't fair but there are lots of things that ain't fair. I am hoping it is polite. If the concensus is that people should be able to list in both places - then we allow people to list in both places.

The system will self level.

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It will level real fast if you post it on the net first then when you get around to publishing pull it off the net.

MarkF said:

It will level real fast if you post it on the net first then when you get around to publishing pull it off the net.

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Mark, if you post it on the net, it will never be availabe at publication time, or it isnt worh buying. The lead time for classifieds is 3 months.

This was cool in the days before the net, and everyone wanted their ON delivered first class to have first shot at the classifieds. I tried a couple times to buy from the classifieds, and was told it sold long ago.

I am betting if the classifieds are advertised in ON as being online, the first class postage deal will disappear, as will the classifieds themselves.

There will also be a major increase in the online membership.

I believe there are powers that most of us dont know that have been resisting this change, as well as prohibiting the publishing of articles in both the ON and the web. Someone doesnt want to see the change, though it will happen weather they want it or not.

I have yet to hear anyone that contributes to the On say they dont want their stuff placed on the forum, and if the MOA has the article and permission to use it, then I dont see why it cant be placed on here.

If the ON is not owned by the membership, and a separate entitiy, then maybe the membership needs to address this and make the necessary changes.

Publishing the articles online and in the magazine should be a seamless thing, and separating the two may have been necessary in the past due to technical issues. Now we have the ability to do both, and I dont see why we cant.

lorazepam said:

Mark, if you post it on the net, it will never be availabe at publication time, or it isnt worh buying. The lead time for classifieds is 3 months.

I am betting if the classifieds are advertised in ON as being online, the first class postage deal will disappear, as will the classifieds themselves.

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Exactly

lorazepam said:

Mark, if you post it on the net, it will never be availabe at publication time, or it isnt worh buying. The lead time for classifieds is 3 months.

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Just for the record, the lead time for ON publication is 45 days.

I moved this over to Online Central, where we're trying to encourage conversation like this.

Is there a website vs. ON issue that we don't know about?



As far as print media vs. online media, yes I spend alot of time online, mainly researching, reading, and social. However every night in bed I read print media for 1-2 hours, books, magazines, etc. I wouldn't want to give up either one. I've tried to read books online, but it isn't the same.

Mark