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Thread: TomTom sorry for giving customer driving data to cops

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    Registered User 119240's Avatar
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    TomTom sorry for giving customer driving data to cops

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    Interesting. Personally I'm not interested in supporting a company that would do such a thing.
    14 R1200GSA, 93 R100R, 15 FJ-09, 15 Road King, 07 Moto Guzzi Griso No car is as fun to drive as any motorcycle is to ride.

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    Unfunded content provider tommcgee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridewv View Post
    Interesting. Personally I'm not interested in supporting a company that would do such a thing.
    Too many scummy companies out there...
    Salty Fog Rally 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2014 And DRAT! Missed the last one in 2015!

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    Registered User 119240's Avatar
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    Sony sorry for giving 77 million customer names, addresses, birthdates, usernames, passwords to a hacker or hackers, all in human readable form; not encrypted. It is also possible (likely?) that they got Sony's customers' credit card card numbers, names, and billing addresses, too:
    here's another http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/...-and-qriocity/
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    Certifiable User Mike_Philippens's Avatar
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    This whole thing is blown out of proportion. TomTom provides statistical data to certain companies/agencies (for money). It's not like it says Mr.X drove 70mph at that 60mph road on 1/1/2011 12:32. It says that x drivers did 50-60 en y drivers did 60-65 z drivers did 65-99. Or something like that.

    The 'problem' was that the police is using the data to decide where to place speedtraps.

    The newspapers always jumps on 'news' like this and they like to print big headings screaming 'TomTom passes speeding info to police' which is true in a very basic sense, but the nuance is only provided in a single line somewhere at the end of the article. A good journalist knows the difference between the heading (ie what is perceived by the general public) and what is actually the case. They intentionally hide it a bit so that the story is a bit juicier.
    -=- if you always see the road ahead of you, it's not worth the trip -=-

  6. #6
    leesrt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Philippens View Post
    This whole thing is blown out of proportion. TomTom provides statistical data to certain companies/agencies (for money). It's not like it says Mr.X drove 70mph at that 60mph road on 1/1/2011 12:32. It says that x drivers did 50-60 en y drivers did 60-65 z drivers did 65-99. Or something like that.

    The 'problem' was that the police is using the data to decide where to place speedtraps.

    The newspapers always jumps on 'news' like this and they like to print big headings screaming 'TomTom passes speeding info to police' which is true in a very basic sense, but the nuance is only provided in a single line somewhere at the end of the article. A good journalist knows the difference between the heading (ie what is perceived by the general public) and what is actually the case. They intentionally hide it a bit so that the story is a bit juicier.
    Im sorry but this explanation didn't make me feel any better about it. Its obvious it wasn't personal information because that would be the equivalent of tracking someone without a warrant..illegal. you can follow someone but tracking them via gps requires a judges signature.

    If LE want my driving patterns they can call me and I'll gladly tell them how I observe all speed limits.

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    Heartbeat of my R100GS Guenther's Avatar
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    And how did TomTom obtain this data? Did customers send in their track logs from the GPS unit or, did TomTom 'pull' the data without the knowledge of the GPS user? If the second, how did they do it?

    /Guenther
    "When in doubt - doubt again!"

  8. #8

    Tracking

    Next time you rent a car look under the front seats and you will see one or two black boxes and these capture all the data on the car while you are using it. Speed, where you have driven to, the routes you took etc.
    Don't want to be tracked while carryying that cell phone that has GPS in it and some that don't then the only way is to remove the battery from the phone. Even if the phone is off you can still be traced with the batery installed.
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    Registered User widebmw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moshaffer View Post
    Orson Wells would be so proud of society today.
    Mo


    George Orwell maybe.

  10. #10
    Certifiable User Mike_Philippens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leesrt View Post
    If LE want my driving patterns they can call me and I'll gladly tell them how I observe all speed limits.
    They don't want your driving patterns personally. Nobody's interested in that, it would be just too much information. It's statistical information, so groups of drivers. I bet there's not even a distinction in cars/trucks/motorcycles.

    So...it's not your patterns/information/location they're after. I still don't see the issue.

    I don't know how it is in the US, but sometimes here in Holland, when they plan a renovation of a crossing, they place electronic counters. They just count the traffic. Sometimes, it looks like the system also measures speed (you see 2 tripwires over the road 1meter distance). That would be the same kind of data-collection. Totally anonymous.
    -=- if you always see the road ahead of you, it's not worth the trip -=-

  11. #11
    Certifiable User Mike_Philippens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guenther View Post
    And how did TomTom obtain this data? Did customers send in their track logs from the GPS unit or, did TomTom 'pull' the data without the knowledge of the GPS user? If the second, how did they do it?
    It's a feature of the system, called HD traffic. TT collects the data, and you know this because they tell you that that's how the system works. You also have to give permission to send data back to TT.
    The system collects the location and speed of all the users of this system, and with that info, they can predict traffic jams. It's better than the official nationwide system, which only monitors the traffic on some locations on major highways. The TT system also allows for monitoring traffic on secundary roads, even within a city.

    So, everybody knows in advance that TT gets your data. What a lot of users didn't seem to know, was that TT sells the anonymized, statistical data to certain companies/agencies to make money. They did agree to a policy, but you know how it is...nobody reads that stuff.
    -=- if you always see the road ahead of you, it's not worth the trip -=-

  12. #12
    Registered User MOTOR31's Avatar
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    According to the article, accuracy of a journalist and editor aside, the information was by customer opt in. In other words you as the customer had to provide permission for the data tracking. Much like the GPS mode in your cell phone as supplied for several years now. You can turn it off. The same could be said for the GPS in general. Do you need it for commuting? Do you really need the gadget to find where you go on a daily basis or do you leave it off most of the time?

    No data regarding an individual was released. Nor could said data be used for any prosecution for traffic offenses. You need the driver info, not the car or gps for prosecution. Just because the gps said you went to destination "x" at a speed "y" does not identify the vehicle it is in (unless permanently mounted) nor does it say who was driving nor does it say if the car was legally obtained for the trip.

    Anyone have an onstar equipped vehicle? You are PAYING for surveillance of your vehicle in that case. It can even talk to you real time while tracking you so your voice print can be recorded!!

    As for the rest of the brouhaha it's pretty much the Orwellian paranoia being displayed.

    BTW do you allow cookies on your PC? Far more of your personal info is gathered there, by your tacit permission, than could possibly be gathered by any gps device. Maybe you should make sure you wear latex gloves while surfing the net to avoid big brother looking over your screen.
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