New BMW Water-Cooled Boxer

39520 said:

[However, in all fairness, I have to say that air cooled Porsches sure sound way better than the water buffalos...]

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Of course they do - they're a boxer twin times 3 !

The first liquid cooled Porsche 911s weigh 50 kg less than their air/oil cooled predecessors, even though they are signifcantly larger cars, so I'm sure that BMW can keep the weight of its water boxers equal to or less than the current 1200s. As noted above, an oil cooler will not be needed, and the oil capacity can be reduced.

Alfred02 said:

As I said, I just can't see them keeping the oil cooling as well.

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Our K1200RSs had oil coolers and so do our K1300Ss.

According to Kevin Cameron an air cooled engine will be heaver than a modern water cooled engine.

5'8 and reachin the ground

bobzeliff said:

I too think BMW will do just fine with a water cooled Boxer.

I hope they will take advantage of a new engine to rething how they design and package the R bikes. I hope they get bact to their roots where bikes we under 500lbs...some where well under that.

I hope they also make their bike toward a more average human scale...ie the average male/female rider of 5'5' to 5' 10" can sit on the bike with their feet flat on the ground. This would help their sales IMO...and make the bikes more of a pleasure to own.

I also think they should work hard to get their center of gravity lower like the had in the days of the R100s etc. This would make the bike more agile at speed and less top heavy
.
This means the GS bikes an the road bike would really have different frames

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Some of us have long legs and short torso and some of us have a long torso and short legs. Can we trade?
The top heavy aspect of the 1150RT doesn't bother me at anything above 5 mph, anything below that and a quick turn to back in somewhere gives me hives so I normally ride on the sidewalk, go off the curb, hit the brakes and "welcome home"!

bobzeliff said:

I too think BMW will do just fine with a water cooled Boxer.

I hope they will take advantage of a new engine to rething how they design and package the R bikes. I hope they get bact to their roots where bikes we under 500lbs...some where well under that.

I hope they also make their bike toward a more average human scale...ie the average male/female rider of 5'5' to 5' 10" can sit on the bike with their feet flat on the ground. This would help their sales IMO...and make the bikes more of a pleasure to own.

I also think they should work hard to get their center of gravity lower like the had in the days of the R100s etc. This would make the bike more agile at speed and less top heavy
.
This means the GS bikes an the road bike would really have different frames

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You can follow the herd or lead em!

Harley V-Rods run a radiator for the engine coolant and below that is an oil cooler. The platform manager for the Street Rod was a German gent named Peter Michael Keppler and I had the great good fortune to talk to him at a bike show in December 2005. I was examining a then new Street Rod and this guy in a Motor Company shirt walks up to me and, in a thick Cousin Arnold Bavarian accent askes
Vell, vat do you think?
WTF's a German doing working for Harley Davidson? was my reply.
Oh, I'm zee platform managah.
!

Anyway, if you ever noticed the little chrome fingers on the bottom of the radiator intakes of a V-Rod, those are vortex generators to create turbulence and increased cooling across the oil cooler.
I kidded him about the appearance of the shrouded V-Rod radiator and his reply was interesting. The front tire of most liquid cooled bikes blocks the airflow to the radiator. "Gumby's Coffin" to use their derisive nick name for the V-Rods radiator shroud scoops air from either side of the front tire and improves cooling. Pretty slick when you understand there was engineering behind it.
I also discovered that Herr Keppler was a road racer when he lived in Germany, raced an RC-51 and knew all the BMW R&D guys because they all raced. He was conversant in things BMW too and understood their qualities. When I told him the qualities I liked about my Beemers, low CG, neutral steering, no tendency to stand up when braking in a corner, he would always reply;
Vell, you haff to ride my bike.
"My bike" he called it. There was a demo available, I cained it good and proper and ended up buying one. No regrets either.

ka5ysy said:

To quote the faithful...

"It Ain't A Harley !"

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I've been told that to my face more than once. It's funny, when I make parts runs to the Harley dealership on my trusty old K-RS it gets admiring looks from the bandanaheads, especially when they see the mileage on that bike. But when I roll up on the Street Rod, the reception is silent bordering on hostile. Sometimes you would think I just unzipped my fly and wagged it at them! Maybe I should.

EMSimon said:

That phenomenon has been around for decades. I used to be part of the HD crowd, and when the EVO came out, the die-hard Shovelhead guys wore t-shirts with the three monkeys saying : See no EVO, Hear no EVO, Ride no EVO.

At exactly the same is true for the BMW crowd. Why are we having part of this discussion? Because there quite a few people who wish BMW would still build Airheads....and nothing else. Why was the flying brick almost a flop?

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I got some grief last weekend from an R-100 rider about my K bike. That hostility has not died off yet among some of the older BMW owners.

I remember the bandanaheads all sniffed that the original Harley FXR with it's nice triangulated rear frame (best handling bike HD made, probably to this day) was "too Japanese" looking. Harley had to ditch that excellent frame for the more traditional, but less capable (read flexy) Dyna frame. Funny though, the FXR became the bike of choice for HA members and a guy in my city modifies FXR frames to accept later Twin-Cam engines mated to late model bagger gear boxes (puts the engine oil sump under the gearbox, eliminating the weight of an oil tank under the seat, Earl Burley is a smart guy).

When? Speculating.

My fine '08 RT, now with 62K miles, could be replaced by a water-cooled version - or not. My decision will be based on what's actually improved and on timing - meaning I can do nothing now, until I know more about the what and when.

Here's my speculation as to BWM's introduction schedule:

1. The WC version of the GS will be introduced in Europe in Oct-Nov 2012, with actual USA availability in summer 2013 as an early 2014 model. The present camhead version will be available as a 2013 model beginning fall 2012.

2. The WC version the RT will follow the GS by 3-6 mo. and be available fall 2013 as a 2014 model. The present camhead version will be available as a 2013 model beginning fall 2012.

I wish this would all play out more quickly but am not optimistic. BMW could add some entertainment value in the meanwhile by offering pre-purchasing schemes as with the K1600's.