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2006 R1200RT ABS brake bleeding

K

kmkahuna

Guest
I've checked the forum, but no one seems to have tackled this issue yet: As I was finishing up the big stuff on a 40km check (oil, final drive, transmission, spline lube, valve adjustment), I started going down the list and noticed the brake inspection. So, being the idealistic, naive mechanic I am, I thought "hey, I'll just bleed the old fluid out".
You know the rest of the story....
Even with an airtight seal on the caliper bleed valve, air is being sucked into the system somewhere...
Now, the rear circuit of the ABS system is empty. How this happened is a mystery. Also a mystery is this: if you apply a vacuum on the rear caliper bleed valve, it's as if you're sucking on a straw: air just gets sucked all the way through the system. Where is this air coming from??? :dunno Why is a closed loop system allowing air into itself?:scratch
Anyway, the handy CD ROM is out, and will bleed the ABS rear circuit, now that my beautiful bike is in pieces all over the garage: the tupperware, the fuel tank, etc...
My question is: does this solve the problem? I will bleed out the ABS rear circuit per the instructions on the CD ROM, and do the same with the normal rear brake reservoir .. Also, is there a good homemade filler system that replaces that BMW specific attachment that goes on the ABS fill valve?

BTW: the hexhead tech section is just awesome: all the other stuff went like clockwork thanks to this forum.
I will try this procedure as my last gasp on trying to solve air in an ABS bike and if it doesn't work, I will cry uncle and bring in the calvary...at a BMW shop.
 
Your use of "rear" confuses me as there are two rear circuits (wheel and control). Which were you trying to bleed? Also, you don't need to apply vacuum to the caliper. The electro-servo assist makes a wonderful pump.

I'm wondering if you opened the rear reservoir for the control circuit then bled the caliper. :ear

If so all you did was bleed the wheel circuit reservoir that is part of the ABS unit dry.
 
Your use of "rear" confuses me as there are two rear circuits (wheel and control). Which were you trying to bleed? Also, you don't need to apply vacuum to the caliper. The electro-servo assist makes a wonderful pump.

I'm wondering if you opened the rear reservoir for the control circuit then bled the caliper. :ear

If so all you did was bleed the wheel circuit reservoir that is part of the ABS unit dry.

I was trying to bleed the wheel circuit. Filled up the reservoir under the seat and opened the bleed valve on the caliper. Did I drain the control circuit as I pumped the rear pedal? I didn't mess with the control circuit at all; didn't fill it, or put fluid in it.
 
+1 on John's post above. I did exactly that on my 06 and bled all per spec. No problems. You will need about 36 ounces of Dot 4 brake fluid (I used three 12oz cans).
 
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What John said, except after cleaning and pushing the caliper pistons into the caliper I use some shims between the brake pads instead of replacing the pads with custom hardwood spacers used in the referenced document.

No need to pump. Light pressure on the brake pedal will cause the servo to come on. A little more pressure will cause fluid to start moving. Fluid will move as long as that pressure is maintained. Keep your eye on the funnel (I assume you're using a funnel) and close the bleed valve while you still see some brake fluid. I use a syringe to suck out excess fluid before removing the funnel.
 
I use two turkey basters (clean and dirty) for fluid removal per the instructions. Use a glass turkey baster if possible to avoid problems with brake fluid attacking the baster tube.
 
No turkey baster I've seen will reach here.

p-20110124-1450-2651.jpg


I like stopping the flush when I can still see fluid. I also like to remove excess fluid before removing the funnel so it doesn't drip down the center of the bike.
 
Thank you!

You guys rock. :dance
Thank you very much for the pdf. Isn't it funny: I just went through 7 months of rebuilding an airhead and tried my best to follow this process:
1. Identify the task.
2. Research the Clymers and exisiting forum articles.
3. ASK FOR HELP!
4. Put on the Nitrile gloves, break out the tools and let the parts and fastners fly...

I shake my head in bemused wonder at how often I blaze right by #3 and just go into the garage with torx and wrenches flying....
Thanks again; will attempt this job after a weekend away from the mancave.
Oh, last question...is DOT3 okay? If not, now that I know what to do, it's pretty easy to flush it out...

K
 
Whew!

Finished the ABS brake bleed, and replaced the brake pads as well tonight. Usually, I take a lot of photos with these projects, but with the hexhead, the tech forum has the pictures and the handout posted earlier in this thread has everything you need to get back on the road. Can't recommend it enough, made it really easy.
The only thing I did differently is that I just put the new pads on and re-installed them vice using wood blocks. Don't know if that would make any difference: it seemed to make sense, right? The new pads are the distance that is needed anyway...

Thanks again to everyone who helped out: that handout is just the bee's knees..
Bike runs great, brakes are fine, and I'm finished with my 24,000 service except for hooking it up and checking the fault values (I do not have the tool...)
 
2006 R1200RT torx-45 torque value: rear brake caliper

Got off the Interstate last night and my bike locked up at a red light. after forcing it off the road and smelling that wonderful metallic brake smell, I noticed the rear caliper pushed up at an unnatural angle: the rear torx bolt had come out somewhere on the road and I can only be thankful this didn't happen to me on the road going 70 mph.

I am quite confident I followed the guidance torqueing these bolts down at 24nm,
http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?t=34541&highlight=torque+brake

or 18 ft/lbs, which in retrospect, seems quite low.
Pretty shaken by the close call....I don't feel very confident of that value now, or maybe my memory with the damn torque wrench. Can you guys confirm, or tell me what values you use?
 
I follow the exact torque specs from the site here on maintenance. My torque wrenches read in Newton Meters as well as in foot pounds.
 
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or 18 ft/lbs, which in retrospect, seems quite low.
Pretty shaken by the close call....I don't feel very confident of that value now, or maybe my memory with the damn torque wrench. Can you guys confirm, or tell me what values you use?

That is why I never use a torque wrench, except on engine components and Cyl heads.
 
Re that DOT3 question.
Always use at least what the factory specs. Unless the spec calls for 3, don't, and even then you might want to use 4 or 5.1 (NOT 5!!) that are all by definition compatible with DOT3.

I've had bad experiences with some DOT3's gumming very easily causing stuck pistons so never use it even when it is the original spec now that 4 and 5.1 are available. I use BMW DOT4 in my bike and Motul 600 in all my 4 wheel stuff because I keep a lot of it around for track use vehicles.

The use of Ford DOT3 by racers as noted in your referenced thread is obsolete and comes from ancient texts by Carroll Smith. It boils at far too low a temp to survive track use in modern, fast and heavy cars because their brake temps get too high. I've seen many examples of folks using it having problems. You might get away with it in something like a Spec Miata that can't hit 130 on the straights of most tracks but it will surely fail in a 'vette or Viper that is a lot heavier and will top 150 in the same spots. mvsquared, etc - mass and speed equal more heat.

I own the tools needed to measure boiling point of brake fluid in a vehicle and have made hundreds of such measurements. From them I can tell that it is essentially a myth that brake fluid boiling points degrade greatly from absorbing moisture from the air - typically I measure 10 degree drops in badly discolored but not obviously contaminated or dirty fluid. What does go out quickly (and the discoloration serves as a fair indicator of) are the anti-corrosion additives in the fluid that degrade in the presence of dissolved air in the fluid. Also obvious is that if you get enough water in system so it separates and collects anywhere near a piston, you are in danger of boiling that water because pad backers are at the rotor temp and up against the piston - but you have to do something pretty stupid to get that much water in a brake system. Dissolved air in brake fluid is a problem and can degas (in effect "boil out") when fluid gets hot. Some race teams have actually gone to the trouble to heat brake fluid prior to filling system to drive it out but that's pretty extreme.

The published wet boiling points come from the most extreme possible abuse- equilibration of fluid in a water saturated atmosphere. This is not about to happen in your bike with its sealed reservoir and rubber diaphragm. 2 yr old fluid on my RT comes out almost as clear as when it went in except that very small particulates form in the bottom of the reservoir. I remove those with a syringe prior to flushing the system so the they don't get pushed into the expensive ABS bits.

And I'm with pffog on torque wrenches. I spin bolts in by hand and torque by feel with the exception of certain engine fasteners and similar though I own 3 torque wrenches for various ranges. I don't use one on brake systems- waste of time. Also, it is wise to pay attention to what bolts go in dry, which get threadlockers (and what type), etc...
 
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Hi. I need tithe procedure for bleeding '06 R1200Rt brakes

Hi. I am a new owner of an '06 R1200Rt and a new member to this site. I require the the above mentioned procedure. I tried to open the PDF mentioned in this thread and it was not available. I have bled all 4 circuits but the brakes are very grabby so I expect the other bleed valves on the module need to bled in a certain order for each circuit.
Can someone please direct me to the right info/procedure?
Thank you
 
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