drive shaft out of phase?

Hello all,
This is my first time posting,but I would really appreciate any and all guidance you could offer.
I have an 04 r1150gs adventure. I had minor play in the rear wheel. I fellow local member was nice enough to drive to my place of employment from the next town over (how cool is that?) To take a look at it. Luckily ,he had encountered the same thing with his gs and suggested it was the pivot bearings. I had them replaced by the dealer...(I think the bearings must be made of gold). Anyway, they told me my driveshaft was 60 degrees out of phase. What does this mean? Is it dangerous? Something that I can repair myself? How could it happen? There are no vibrations at all....what should I do? It is quite impossible for me to afford the repair they hinted I needed at the moment. If you are so inclined please email me at yiant@aol.com.thanks so much!
Jim

Correctly phasing your driveshaft is illustrated in the last picture in this link http://jniolon.clubfte.com/drivelinephasing/drivelinephasing.html
Post #10 in this link http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=472815 will show you a BMW driveshaft in phase.
It's not that hard to do. If you wanted to do it yourself just read this excellent article on replacing your pivot bearings, which you may or may not want to do as well, and you will understand how to correctly align your driveshaft's U-joints. You will need a very small flashlight to shine up to the front U-joint to adjust its location before reattaching the final drive.

http://rvbprecision.com/motorcycles/bmw-pivot-bearing-replacement.html

Dave

Keep in mind that a drive shaft U joint phasing is fixed at assembly. That is, if it is out of phase, it was put together out of phase. It does not go out of phase with time. So someone did it incorrectly. But as mentioned above, if you are good with tools, you can fix it.

Jim,
I re-read your original post and something is not quite right here. When the pivot bearings were replaced they would have reattached your final drive after correctly phasing the drive shaft. Are you sure they were not just alerting you to the fact that the original assembly of your drive shaft was out of phase?
If your assumption is correct--i.e., they are now telling you you need to spend more to have your drive shaft correctly phased-- I'd go to the management and ask for a free repair.

Dave

jimehayes said:

Hello all,
This is my first time posting,but I would really appreciate any and all guidance you could offer.
I have an 04 r1150gs adventure. ............. the pivot bearings. I had them replaced by the dealer...(I think the bearings must be made of gold).
Jim

Click to expand...

Jim,
The boxer twins are relatively easy bikes to work on, even if you're not mechanically gifted. There are literally hundreds of illustrated "how to" articles, both here and at http://www.advrider.com/forums/ (go to GSpot, Oilhead boxers, and find Hall of Wisdom).
If you choose to go ths route you will save thousands of dollars over a few years and know that everything has been done correctly.

Dave

PETDOC said:

Jim,
I re-read your original post and something is not quite right here. When the pivot bearings were replaced they would have reattached your final drive after correctly phasing the drive shaft. Are you sure they were not just alerting you to the fact that the original assembly of your drive shaft was out of phase?
If your assumption is correct--i.e., they are now telling you you need to spend more to have your drive shaft correctly phased-- I'd go to the management and ask for a free repair.

Dave

Click to expand...

Whoa, good point. They MUST have been saying what they found. They can't be saying they put it back together wrong! Does not compute.

Easy enough to pick up the phone and give them a call. You will sleep better once you talk with them.

an 1150GSA is keyed. it will only go together in one way. the only new one i remember was not "phased".
if you want a new shaft. they will be happy to install it at your cost.

Thanks for all of the input! They told me that while reassembly they found that the drive shaft was 60 degrees out of phase and that it had affected a rubber bushing of some sort. They asked if I had felt any vibrations....I told them I had not. They informed me that it could last 1000 miles or 50,000 miles, but I risked a failure and that they had heard of the u joints seizing the rear wheel at speed....which terrified me. They suggested a new drive shaft at $630+labor. I simply cannot afford this. To be honest, the same amount of play is in the rear wheel after pivot bearing replacement. From the info that you guys have been so generous to provide, it looks to me that if what they tell me is in fact the case,they could have easily rectified the issue while it was disassembled.and,why would it require a new drive shaft when its just a matter of correcting the placement of each piece?my main concern is safety. I have been planning a 2000 mile trip this spring...$1500 later, I still am not confident in the bike. Mostly due to the dealerships suggestions. Once again, I really appreciate veteran input!

danielroth said:

an 1150GSA is keyed. it will only go together in one way. the only new one i remember was not "phased".
if you want a new shaft. they will be happy to install it at your cost.

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I know some BMW drive shafts are keyed and can be reassembled only one way; however, my 2004 GS is not keyed. Do you know for a fact the 2004 GSA's were keyed?

fact

jimehayes said:

Thanks for all of the input! They told me that while reassembly they found that the drive shaft was 60 degrees out of phase and that it had affected a rubber bushing of some sort.

Click to expand...

Jim,
I cannot envision what rubber bushing they are referring to. Perhaps others might chime in.

but I risked a failure and that they had heard of the u joints seizing the rear wheel at speed....which terrified me. They suggested a new drive shaft at $630+labor. I simply cannot afford this.

Click to expand...

I guess anything is possible, but I've not seen any posts regarding seized U joints. Maybe Paul Glaves is lurking and may shine some light on this issue.
You might also post your story on advrider.com in the GSpot Oilhead thread. Virtually all the contributors own a GS and many do their own work.

To be honest, the same amount of play is in the rear wheel after pivot bearing replacement.

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If they didn't get the pivot pins torqued correctly you could still have play. There are other issues that will cause play in the rear wheel. Most notably the impending failure of the crown bearing in the final drive.
What part of country do you live in? Perhaps other members could recommend a reliable source for a second opinion on your problem.
I'm sorry your are having issues with your GS, as it is a great bike. I wasn't there so I really don't know what was done, but if it is as you suggest, only a replacement of the pivot bearings, $1500 seems a tad steep, but again I wasn't there.

Dave

danielroth said:

fact

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Daniel,
If you are correct then I would assume one of 2 things:
Either Jim does not have an issue with the phasing of his drive shaft
or
BMW had a bad batch of drive shafts shipped.

Hard for me to believe the latter and if true I would assume that were it a safety issue BMW would gladly replace the part.

Dave

I am in Macon Ga. I will gladly travel any reasonable distance for true guidance.

PETDOC said:

Jim,
I cannot envision what rubber bushing they are referring to. Perhaps others might chime in.

Click to expand...

The front half of the driveshaft is comprised of two tubes, larger and smaller. One fits inside the other. They are held together by a black rubber compound. I think it is designed to work as a driveline shock abosrber. Occasionally (rarely) the rubber lets go and the smaller tube spins in the bigger tube. You don't go anywhere, but it is not dangerous. Interestingly, I just heard of a failure in which the rubber failed when it got hot and caused the parts to spin. When it cooled off the rubber held together and the bike would move again. Weird. In any event, it's pretty rare. Also, it doesn't have anything to do with the phasing of the u-joints per se. I guess maybe an out of phase driveshaft might vibrate and weaken the rubber?

If a u-joint fails, it will be louder and much more exciting. The driveshaft will bang around inside the swing arm and make a horrific noise. In an extreme case it might knock a hole in the swingarm itself. It's unpleasant, and expensive. I've never heard of it locking up the rear wheel though. U-joint failures are also pretty rare. I'd be a little concerned if it was a high-mileage bike (80K + miles). You didn't say, how many miles do you have on the bike?

I'm curious about the shop and the $1500 repair bill. Which shop? What else did you have done? FYI, in your area BMW of Atlanta is known to be a good shop.

As a note, you may be able to do a lot of this work yourself. Look around your garage. Do you have a heat gun and a big torque wrench. If so, you probably have the skills and the tools to play with this yourself.

The bike has 38,000 miles on it. And now that you mention it, that was part of what they told me...that it had spun in the rubber dampener. The bill is over two visits and included replacing/ troubleshooting ignition problems,replacing all fuel hoses,strainer,filter,etc and replacing the pivot bearings. If it has indeed spun in the rubber portion, this should not affect the phasing of the u joints should it? They told me it require a new driveshaft.I have access to printer today, so I hope to print out some of the literature from this site as well as advrider.

Jim,
Based on what Daniel said, i.e., all '04 GS Adventures have indexed drive shafts, and Jim Moore's explanation of the black rubber bushing, I can envision how your drive shaft could be out of phase.
If as Jim Moore had heard the inner shaft could break free from the rubber bushing and then re-set, then theoretically the drive shaft could re-set out of phase.
You need to speak with someone who has worked on a fair number of these bikes to see if they have ever experienced such a thing. I recommend trying to contact Steptoe on ADVRIDER.
If and when you get an answer please post it on this thread so all will be the wiser.

Dave

jimehayes said:

The bill is over two visits and included replacing/ troubleshooting ignition problems,replacing all fuel hoses,strainer,filter,etc and replacing the pivot bearings.

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You $1500 cost for the service is now sounding more reasonable. I would add, however, these are all serviceable items by the owner/shade tree mechanic, and the cost and sense of satisfaction would be remarkably different.

There may be a pic of a driveshaft here, depending on my computer skills. You can see where the larger and smaller parts of the front of the driveshaft go together, and you can see the splines where the two halfs of the driveshaft attach.