pglaves
#13338
Wow! Do you travel very much?
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Ethanol in fuel
- Thread starter ANDYMCLAIN
- Start date
Wow! Do you travel very much?
K1600_gtl
New member
well the accurate answer to your question is "I've been to 6 continents, 50 states, and over 75 countries (counting territories)"... but that's because I've been an international airline pilot for over 15 years.... your point pertains to riding my bike, which I rarely use to "Travel" but more for entertainment and enjoyment ... I don't do as much of that as many on here likely do. However, it's not AT ALL hard to find either a Chevron or a Texico station in almost every major metro area that I've spent any significant time in recently... having lived in California, Arizona, Texas, and now Oregon, I've found these readily everywhere... I have found that out east (NY, NJ, etc..) there are far fewer quality gas brands available, and to the people who have to buy those less reputable brands, I'd strongly advise investing in the "Techron" additive.
SteveAikens
Proud Veteran
Obviously, he doesn't travel where there are no Chevron stations - unless he's in a pinch and can decides to lower his standard enough to use Shell.
Personally, I prefer Chevron, but have been lowered to panther piss - or at least the bike ran like it was panther piss - with probably 20 percent cool, clear water in it - in a pinch.....
Personally, I prefer Chevron, but have been lowered to panther piss - or at least the bike ran like it was panther piss - with probably 20 percent cool, clear water in it - in a pinch.....
SteveAikens
Proud Veteran
Same company - Texaco is now owned by Chevron.
mika
Still Wondering
We shouldn't be having this conversation.
I find myself a bit embarrassed to be a U of Mn alum and living in Mn again as I read this thread.
In the pre-ethanol days the U of Mn did alternative fuel research as did many others. When Minnesota faced some serious problems with environmental standards ethanol was trotted out as a quick and easy substitute for the offending component in the then current gasoline blend. It was sold as a short term solution while a long term substitute was developed.
Mission creep quickly set in. To keep costs down the market for the ethanol blend was expanded and in the process it shifted from a short term substitute to a problem to the solution for energy independence. We find ourselves having a discussion that should have ended by now.
The environmental air quality concern was real. I can attest to that with first hand experience. Failing to address it would have been disastrous for the state. The unfortunate thing is while the environmental air quality issue has improved other environmental issues related to ethanol production have not.
The continued use of ethanol strikes me as bad farm policy and bad energy policy. We have a plethora of the former and a dearth of the latter.
Currently we have between forty and fifty blends of gasoline. An expansion of E10 to E15 or 20 will only increase that number. To what end? The main energy reason, as I understand it, was to be a short term solution for an offending component while another was developed. Where is the long term solution?
What does “energy independence” mean? Does it mean “drill baby drill” or something else?
Our ability to drill to replace all our imports seems dubious at best. We can improve the balance but not replace. Using ethanol no matter the source is equally or more dubious. We are a net importer of oil and a net exporter of refined petroleum products. Based on that it would seem the world outside our borders needs us as much or more and thus we have one kind of independence to deal in that world. Yet we have not developed new refining capacity to replace old and control of existing is in question. Alternative power sources for transport such as electricity clearly have a role. Yet given our ethanol experience will we manage the problems these alternatives present any better?
Rant about ethanol all you want. Beat your chest as you proclaim your use of ethanol-free blends. Sign all the petitions you want. Until citizens take the time to understand the issues and demand sensible farm policy and formulation of a real energy policy we stuck with the a system that is delivering us the worst of all worlds. But I digress into restricted territory with that rant.
The real questions we can discuss to some purpose on this forum
What bike parts do I need to be concerned about with ethanol
What are the specifications I should be looking for when replacing fuel lines, seals etc.
How do I repair tank damage
insert your questions here.
I find myself a bit embarrassed to be a U of Mn alum and living in Mn again as I read this thread.
In the pre-ethanol days the U of Mn did alternative fuel research as did many others. When Minnesota faced some serious problems with environmental standards ethanol was trotted out as a quick and easy substitute for the offending component in the then current gasoline blend. It was sold as a short term solution while a long term substitute was developed.
Mission creep quickly set in. To keep costs down the market for the ethanol blend was expanded and in the process it shifted from a short term substitute to a problem to the solution for energy independence. We find ourselves having a discussion that should have ended by now.
The environmental air quality concern was real. I can attest to that with first hand experience. Failing to address it would have been disastrous for the state. The unfortunate thing is while the environmental air quality issue has improved other environmental issues related to ethanol production have not.
The continued use of ethanol strikes me as bad farm policy and bad energy policy. We have a plethora of the former and a dearth of the latter.
Currently we have between forty and fifty blends of gasoline. An expansion of E10 to E15 or 20 will only increase that number. To what end? The main energy reason, as I understand it, was to be a short term solution for an offending component while another was developed. Where is the long term solution?
What does “energy independence” mean? Does it mean “drill baby drill” or something else?
Our ability to drill to replace all our imports seems dubious at best. We can improve the balance but not replace. Using ethanol no matter the source is equally or more dubious. We are a net importer of oil and a net exporter of refined petroleum products. Based on that it would seem the world outside our borders needs us as much or more and thus we have one kind of independence to deal in that world. Yet we have not developed new refining capacity to replace old and control of existing is in question. Alternative power sources for transport such as electricity clearly have a role. Yet given our ethanol experience will we manage the problems these alternatives present any better?
Rant about ethanol all you want. Beat your chest as you proclaim your use of ethanol-free blends. Sign all the petitions you want. Until citizens take the time to understand the issues and demand sensible farm policy and formulation of a real energy policy we stuck with the a system that is delivering us the worst of all worlds. But I digress into restricted territory with that rant.
The real questions we can discuss to some purpose on this forum
What bike parts do I need to be concerned about with ethanol
What are the specifications I should be looking for when replacing fuel lines, seals etc.
How do I repair tank damage
insert your questions here.
arthurdent
New member
Preach it brother
Wot e said!
I'm not as eloquent.
Wot e said!
I'm not as eloquent.
ayaple
SAY 1 Let's ride
Finally gas with out ethanol
After years of running my 2004 R1150RT on 10% ethanol, I thought the bike was suppose to ping in hot weather and have listless power. A local gas station now offers high test gas without ethanol. My bike's power is at least 10 percent better, no engine ping and needless to say it has much better gas mileage. The gas cost more but well worth it.
After years of running my 2004 R1150RT on 10% ethanol, I thought the bike was suppose to ping in hot weather and have listless power. A local gas station now offers high test gas without ethanol. My bike's power is at least 10 percent better, no engine ping and needless to say it has much better gas mileage. The gas cost more but well worth it.
pglaves
#13338
After years of running my 2004 R1150RT on 10% ethanol, I thought the bike was suppose to ping in hot weather and have listless power. A local gas station now offers high test gas without ethanol. My bike's power is at least 10 percent better, no engine ping and needless to say it has much better gas mileage. The gas cost more but well worth it.
Not at all a surprise to me but some chemists or engineers will probably tell you you are hallucinating the change.
36654
New member
Actually, there was only ever a farm policy to maintain corn prices. The issue of transportation (excluding highway construction) and transportation fuel has always been cast to the market. It's ironic that we only have an "energy problem" if you're talking about transportation fuel and chemical industry base stocks. Our stationary power (electricity) needs are handled by abundant and affordable supplies of coal, nat. gas, hydro and nuclear.
I have no problem acknowledging the shortcomings of our energy/transportation /agri-business policy which produced the product, but that doesn't alter the energy content of a given ethanol blend.
mika
Still Wondering
Potato PoTAto sounds like we are in general agreement while placing emphasis on different parts of the discussion and perhaps some of the resulting implications of that emphasis.
The energy content of a given ethanol blend was never in doubt by me. It is what it is. For me the question is in the shift of ethanol as a short term interim solution to a long term problem, the implications of that shift and their appropriateness.
36654
New member
Can't we be in agreement on all the main issues and still argue endlessly over pointless details?
Seriously, do we want to waste this opportunity to alienate each other?
mika
Still Wondering
Can't we be in agreement on all the main issues and still argue endlessly over pointless details?
Seriously, do we want to waste this opportunity to alienate each other?
Squander an opportunity to alienate each other?!
Balderdash!
It is fundamental to the survival of our planet. I have irrefutable calculations proving the effluence from the endless arguments over pointless details is the cause of whole in the ozone layer. The only serious question is if this is dangerous for us or the reason the Vogons have delayed their hyperspatial express route. The question of the dangers from the whole in the ozone add a a whole new dimension to the ATTGAT/Helmet thread debate thus creating even more effluence that is vented through the whole. In the case of the latter I have seen solid Internet evidence that Deep Though has been re-tasked to find a way to capture said effluence and use it to power either a microwave, a cappuccino machine or both for the Restaurant at the End of the Universe. The really cool thing is the debate over which to power may generate enough additional effluence to power both. If that is the case how long can that happen? The debate over that may in turn support the power demand indefinitely.
In the end you are right, you're wrong. The trouble is I can't remember about what.
ANDYVH
New member
And we are the educated few arguing the obvious. Preaching to our own choir.
Too bad a high percentage of the general populace don't have this same knowledge of what E10 really is and its impact on food, animal, feed prices, cost of processing, gov subsidy, etc, etc. I think if more of the public knew how screwed up this E10 program is, we "might" gather enough market pressure to take it off the market.
Too bad a high percentage of the general populace don't have this same knowledge of what E10 really is and its impact on food, animal, feed prices, cost of processing, gov subsidy, etc, etc. I think if more of the public knew how screwed up this E10 program is, we "might" gather enough market pressure to take it off the market.
pglaves
#13338
In some states, Iowa comes to mind, the state gas tax is reduced for gasahol. So mid-grade with ethanol costs generally 10 cents per gallon less than regular. Folks drive up to the pump, see the "better" gas is cheaper and pump away to their hearts content. (At least non-adulterated gas is available.)
Then they get reduced mileage but don't notice or don't care and pump even more of it.
Meanwhile, the motor fuels tax fund gets millions of dollars less per year and road maintenance suffers.
And this scheme is considered good public policy. Sheesh!
lmo1131
New member
I was the fleet oiler on a freeway widening project for two years; I was responsible for fueling and maintenance on about thirty pieces of construction equipment. I was also my job to order diesel fuel when ever required.
Diesel is sold, in California, as either "on road" or "off road"; the difference being that "off road" is not taxed (as heavily)' it's also dyed red to enable DOT cops to identity it when they make a stop. God help the trucker who is found to have red diesel in their saddle tanks.
At some point along the line, it was requested, or suggested by CalTrans, that our fleet switch over to bio-diesel for some of it's equipment (portable light plants, compressors, etc.) so I had to locate a source. When I did, and before they would deliver any fuel, I was presented with a two page document that outlined the possible negative aspects of using bio-diesel in "conventionally fueled" diesel engines. The last page was a disclaimer of responsibility for any damage that might occur as a result of using their product, along with a waiver, to be signed by a company official.
Tell me that you know of anyone who has ever been presented any information about how alcohol-augmented gasoline might adversely affect their vehicle if they decide to use them (like they have a choice).
36654
New member
Squander an opportunity to alienate each other?!
Balderdash!
It is fundamental to the survival of our planet. I have irrefutable calculations proving the effluence from the endless arguments over pointless details is the cause of whole in the ozone layer. The only serious question is if this is dangerous for us or the reason the Vogons have delayed their hyperspatial express route. The question of the dangers from the whole in the ozone add a a whole new dimension to the ATTGAT/Helmet thread debate thus creating even more effluence that is vented through the whole. In the case of the latter I have seen solid Internet evidence that Deep Though has been re-tasked to find a way to capture said effluence and use it to power either a microwave, a cappuccino machine or both for the Restaurant at the End of the Universe. The really cool thing is the debate over which to power may generate enough additional effluence to power both. If that is the case how long can that happen? The debate over that may in turn support the power demand indefinitely.
In the end you are right, you're wrong. The trouble is I can't remember about what.
You've eloquently stated the fallacy of your position. Let's move on.
mika
Still Wondering
The old 'eloquently stated' troll to get me to move without telling me where we're moving on too.
36654
New member
The old 'eloquently stated' troll to get me to move without telling me where we're moving on too.
Forgive me for the lacking originality of my reply. I was tired from dodging Amish buggies all afternoon. It's dating season amongst the young Amish and they like to "park" on the twisty ridge top roads during nice Sunday afternoons.
