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Thread: Ethanol in fuel

  1. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    And we are the educated few arguing the obvious. Preaching to our own choir.

    Too bad a high percentage of the general populace don't have this same knowledge of what E10 really is and its impact on food, animal, feed prices, cost of processing, gov subsidy, etc, etc. I think if more of the public knew how screwed up this E10 program is, we "might" gather enough market pressure to take it off the market.
    In some states, Iowa comes to mind, the state gas tax is reduced for gasahol. So mid-grade with ethanol costs generally 10 cents per gallon less than regular. Folks drive up to the pump, see the "better" gas is cheaper and pump away to their hearts content. (At least non-adulterated gas is available.)

    Then they get reduced mileage but don't notice or don't care and pump even more of it.

    Meanwhile, the motor fuels tax fund gets millions of dollars less per year and road maintenance suffers.

    And this scheme is considered good public policy. Sheesh!
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  2. #137
    Registered User lmo1131's Avatar
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    And this scheme is considered good public policy. Sheesh!
    I was the fleet oiler on a freeway widening project for two years; I was responsible for fueling and maintenance on about thirty pieces of construction equipment. I was also my job to order diesel fuel when ever required.

    Diesel is sold, in California, as either "on road" or "off road"; the difference being that "off road" is not taxed (as heavily)' it's also dyed red to enable DOT cops to identity it when they make a stop. God help the trucker who is found to have red diesel in their saddle tanks.

    At some point along the line, it was requested, or suggested by CalTrans, that our fleet switch over to bio-diesel for some of it's equipment (portable light plants, compressors, etc.) so I had to locate a source. When I did, and before they would deliver any fuel, I was presented with a two page document that outlined the possible negative aspects of using bio-diesel in "conventionally fueled" diesel engines. The last page was a disclaimer of responsibility for any damage that might occur as a result of using their product, along with a waiver, to be signed by a company official.

    Tell me that you know of anyone who has ever been presented any information about how alcohol-augmented gasoline might adversely affect their vehicle if they decide to use them (like they have a choice).
    "It is what you discover, after you know it all, that counts." _ John Wooden
    Lew Morris
    1973 R75/5 - original owner
    1963 Dnepr

  3. #138
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    Squander an opportunity to alienate each other?!

    Balderdash!

    It is fundamental to the survival of our planet. I have irrefutable calculations proving the effluence from the endless arguments over pointless details is the cause of whole in the ozone layer. The only serious question is if this is dangerous for us or the reason the Vogons have delayed their hyperspatial express route. The question of the dangers from the whole in the ozone add a a whole new dimension to the ATTGAT/Helmet thread debate thus creating even more effluence that is vented through the whole. In the case of the latter I have seen solid Internet evidence that Deep Though has been re-tasked to find a way to capture said effluence and use it to power either a microwave, a cappuccino machine or both for the Restaurant at the End of the Universe. The really cool thing is the debate over which to power may generate enough additional effluence to power both. If that is the case how long can that happen? The debate over that may in turn support the power demand indefinitely.

    In the end you are right, you're wrong. The trouble is I can't remember about what.
    You've eloquently stated the fallacy of your position. Let's move on.
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
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  4. #139
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    You've eloquently stated the fallacy of your position. Let's move on.
    The old 'eloquently stated' troll to get me to move without telling me where we're moving on too.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

  5. #140
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    The old 'eloquently stated' troll to get me to move without telling me where we're moving on too.
    Forgive me for the lacking originality of my reply. I was tired from dodging Amish buggies all afternoon. It's dating season amongst the young Amish and they like to "park" on the twisty ridge top roads during nice Sunday afternoons.
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
    1) My expectations are never low enough & 2) Incompetence is infinite ........David Brooks

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by arthurdent View Post
    I had a student do an in engine test of e10 vs straight unleaded for science fair. His results after repeated tests: ethanol fuel spins his engine crankshaft faster, produces more heat and runs for a shorter period than on straight no lead. He didn't have a dyno to use, but the duration of running should be adequate proof. Btw, he did take the project to state and won his category there.

    E10 is bunk, political kool-ade and your insistence on empirical "proof" in the face of overwhelming testimony does your argument no good whatever. Yes, I am a trained scientist who can sort fact from whim and the numbers do not add up for ethanol from corn being anything but a big-business, government (taxpayer) funded boondoggle.
    +1,000!!! I went back to school/college in 1973(age 30) & one of my classes then-then mind you not here & now! -was a "Power Mechanics" class. The teacher (I was his lab asst @ like $1 hr after making lots more in industry) was an engr from Pratt & Whitney previously & we discussed in that class at length the logic(or not) of alcohol fuels from corn,etc..
    It was an energy negative fuel source based on the transportation issues & energy to raise the corn ,production of the fuel, energy derived and it's not a political issue until you take it from those various realities to D.C. as has been done by the lobby, which is political, of course. That it's a dumb way to get fuel is non political.
    It sure makes for lots of carb kit & other various parts sales with small engines.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1200RClassic View Post
    well the accurate answer to your question is "I've been to 6 continents, 50 states, and over 75 countries (counting territories)"... but that's because I've been an international airline pilot for over 15 years.... your point pertains to riding my bike, which I rarely use to "Travel" but more for entertainment and enjoyment ... I don't do as much of that as many on here likely do. However, it's not AT ALL hard to find either a Chevron or a Texico station in almost every major metro area that I've spent any significant time in recently... having lived in California, Arizona, Texas, and now Oregon, I've found these readily everywhere... I have found that out east (NY, NJ, etc..) there are far fewer quality gas brands available, and to the people who have to buy those less reputable brands, I'd strongly advise investing in the "Techron" additive.
    "Quality Gas Brands" Hmmmmmmmmm........ Now there's another thread?

  8. #143
    Registered User arthurdent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
    "Quality Gas Brands" Hmmmmmmmmm........ Now there's another thread?
    And when you live in yenevelt, you pump what you can get cause there ain't nothin else but cow piss to choose from.

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